Is The World 6,000 Years Old?

Jimmy emails: Rabbi Leib Tropper is infamous for promoting and enforcing the requirement that converts believe that the world is less than 6000 years old. See here if you’re not familiar with it:

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2009/11/rabbi-leib-tropper-and-ejf.html
http://www.zootorah.com/controversy/ejf.pdf
http://modernorthoprax.blogspot.com/2009/09/amazing-shailah-and-teshuvah.html

Well get this: Shannon Orand, his mistress, promoted a speech by Gerald Schroeder, the Orthodox apologist whose shtick is explaining the the true age of the Earth is not a contradiction with the Torah! See here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Houston/message/1133

She approves of Schroeder?? OH NOES, her conversion can’t be valid!

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The Last Forbidden Love

David Deutsch emails: Luke Ford has long been a visionary. He was obsessively anti-immigration long before Lou Dobbs. He was drawn to the mysteries of kabbalah years before Madonna. And he was an Australian expat with a troubled relationship to the Jewish community when Mad Max hadn’t even made it to Thunderdome, much less beyond it. Now, it seems, the “Prognausticator” has done it again. For years, Luke has been a hero to those who share what he has called “the last forbidden love in America.” He was speaking, of course, of his love for Australian pop duo, Air Supply. It’s a love which, if rumors are to be believed, got him kicked out of more than one Los Angeles area synagogue. Now, however, the paper of record has come out with a piece suggesting that this brave, well-coiffed man is not alone. According to the New York Times, new, more rigorously collected statistics suggest that many more men then previously thought have been “easy listening.” What’s the lesson here? Want to know what the future may bring? Forget bout your Magic Eightball, just keep an eye on Luke.

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Saturday New York Times On R. Leib Tropper Story?

Jack emails: The Tropper scandal is hitting the [the news media, turned out to be the New York Post first, not the New York Times as expected]…they want to do a front page expose on the metro section this Saturday.

Here is some interesting fodder for your blog, his sister in law Susan Blonde, his devoted sister in law, who is the original queen of PR and runs a PR agency in NY, she did PR for Michael Jackson and was behind the scenes in making him look good even when he was accused of molestation and making the accusers and parents of the molested boys look bad, and it worked, he was let go and never spent a day in jail. She will try to now do the same for her dear sister and brother in law Tropper are being framed by Guma et al.

From Rabbileibtropper.com:

“Question: Rabbi Tropper, someone once told me the reason why Hashem created two eyes and one mouth. I cannot remember the reason told to me. Would you happen to have any idea? Andy R.Teaneck

Rabbi Tropper Responds:The Alshich Hakodosh in Parshas Tetzave says that the reason we have two eyes and one mouth is to remind us that we should only talk and discuss half of what we see.

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Who Was R. Leib Tropper Talking To On Those Tapes? Shannon Orand – Outreach Administrator At The Eternal Jewish Family?

Here’s a moving video about the process of converting to Judaism, check out the inspiring words of Rabbi Leib Tropper:

The Eternal Jewish Family is an independent organization dedicated to the preservation of the authentic Jewish family, as is dictated by our Torah delivered to the Jewish nation on Mt. Sinai more than 3300 years ago. A primary focus of EJF is the halachic conversion of a non-Jewish spouse in an intermarriage. To assure that all conversions are based on the authentic dictates of Torah and halacha, the Eternal Jewish Family follows the halachic guidelines of such noted Torah authorities as Harav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l, Harav Yosef Sholom Eliyashuv shlit”a, Harav Shmuel Wosner shlit”a, Harav Reuven Feinstein shlit”a, as well as leading Sephardic authorities shlit”a. The Eternal Jewish Family is affiliated with Horizons and the Kol Yaakov Torah Center of Monsey, New York. Founded 25 years ago under the inspiration of the late venerable sage Harav Yaakov Kaminetsky zt”l, Kol Yaakov has been a leading institution in the kiruv movement. Hundreds of its alumni have over the years assumed leadership positions in Jewish life throughout the world.

Dov Bear reports:

Absolute facts:

— In 2006 Leib Tropper revoked a woman’s conversion because of a breach of strict halachic tznius rules.
— In October 2009 Leib Tropper was sued by a billionaire Israeli for allegedly misappropriating 1 million dollars.
— In mid-December 2009 Leib Tropper resigned from his leadership role at EJF
— Pashkvelin in Israel, this month, denounced Leib Tropper as a Zimri playing like a Pinchas.

Facts Supported by strong circumstantial evidence:

— A woman who identifies herself as Shannon Orand, recorded a number of conversations between herself and a man who sounds like Leib Tropper and has intimate information about Leib Tropper’s associates and family.
— In the audio recording, Tropper speaks of a sexual relationship with the woman as well as setting her up for phone sex and actual sex acts with men identified only as “Amir” and the “Satmar guy.”
— Money is passing hands, although it is not clear if the funds were used as a quid pro quo for sex.

Information provided by Shmarya at FailedMessiah after a conversation with the woman (whom he does not identify):

— The audio was leaked and was not supposed to end up in the hands of bloggers and mainstream media.
— One of Shmarya’s sources for the audio was the billionaire Israeli.
— There were other women that were part of the sexual activities.
— The woman claims that Tropper was using her for sex and in return he was going to provide her with a conversion.

Investigative Reporting:

— The woman on the audio is from Texas. There is a Shannon Orand listed in Houston Texas. Her address is near the frum neighborhood.
— Ms. Orand claims on her Myspace page that she was raised Catholic and is now Jewish. This implies she has already converted.
— Ms. Orand has not logged into her Myspace account since August 2009.
— Ms. Orand had a Facebook account (which is still visible in google results if you click “cached”) it has been since deleted.

Here’s a comment to DovBear: Shannon Orand’s Linked In profile claims that her current position is “Outreach Administration at Eternal Jewish Family”. Thus, if it was her, I would assume Tropper would be familar with her background. And it indicates that her background includes many kiruv positions, which is not likely if she had not yet converted.

DINA COMMENTS: The conversion process requires living for at least a year as a Jew, so that would explain why she is saying she’s Jewish when she’s still technically not Jewish.

CA POSTS: – If Ms. Orand had already converted why was she converting again? Was it a set-up? Or was she really converting (again)?

Perhaps the reason she was able to get converted was because she did the Rabbi’s bidding. But she continued becuase the rabbi has a track record of “revoking” conversions of people who don’t cooperate.

— A man with the means of the slighted billionaire Israeli could very well have orchestrated the demise of his nemesis by playing to Tropper’s weaknesses with an elaborate set-up.

You mean he’s so rich he has access to some sort of secret mind-control technology that makes a man do things he wouldn’t do otherwise?

— By recording conversations in which the woman admits to sexual activity with a married man and potential sexual activity with others, we can infer that there was a huge interest on her part to expose Tropper and indict herself.

Yeah, well lots of people succumb to extortion, that doesn’t mean they like it or like the person who’s doing it. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that she was collecting evidence that could be used against the guy.

— The things Tropper did would still be inexcusable but they shed new light on his predicament.

His predicament is self-made. If he wanted a life of kinky sex, he should have gone into show business, where that sort of activity isn’t such a career-killer, and he would have found lots of willing partners.

READER COMMENTS: Of course she was trying to get a response from him. She was TAPING the calls. She was obviously on her way out of the relationship and wanted to take proof with her.

Even if it was total entrapment, he still admitted to all sorts of sexual things and sure seems to admit to pimping her also.

Lots of people first convert Reform or Conservative and then decide they can make the commitment to converting Orthodox. It usually requires a bigger financial commitment like moving to a frum neighborhood where real estate is very expensive and you might even have to quit your job. It’s very common in the world of converts.

MJ COMMENTS: Listening to the recordings without any knowledge of the situation other than the assumption hat they are authentic, it is hard to come to any conclusion other than you have a married man who is in an alarmingly manipulative and seemingly coercive relationship with another woman.

The man cites the Torah as providing reason why he can be in love with multiple partners and seems to fault her for not being able to do the same. The man further admits to being sexually coercive with his spouse.

The question is not whether this is illegal, The question is how, once again, did this kind of person with a predatory nature rise to a position of power. The answer is, once again, with the complicity of a rabbinic establishment that depends on handlers like Tropper to funnel millions of dollars to their institutions.

I know plenty of lovely people in the kiruv business. But I’ve traced the origins of the kiruv movement and the major organizations it nearly always comes back to people with cult-like manipulative personalities and very shady financial arrangements. I spent time working at a kiruv organization that is very highly regarded (=not Aish). This organization did not turn into the vast financial scheme that others have, but it too was led by a person, now dead, who was emotionally abusive and its clients were across the board people of unstable emotional grounding.

VEGANOVICH COMMENTS: Below is Shannon Orand

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Become a fan of Rabbi Leib Tropper Discrete Encounters

Click here.

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Is Leib Tropper related to the Tropper in LA that opened the “home school” Yeshiva?

From UOJ: The LA Tropper is a nephew, the son of Rabbi Dovid Tropper. They both taught in various LA yeshivas.

The tapes:

http://www.2shared.com/file/10008550/23589caa/Leibs_contract_2.html

http://www.2shared.com/file/10008637/e92010d6/Leibs_contract.html

http://www.2shared.com/file/10008381/e57caec3/rebbetzinAdmission.html

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Voice On Tape Clearly R. Leib Tropper

A poster named “Former Friend” writes: I have known, met with, spoken dozens and dozens of times to Leib Tropper over the past 30 years. His voice is very identifiable. His personality is very identifiable. It pained me to listen to what was so obviously his voice on the tapes. I couldn’t bring myself to listen to much of the content, once it was clear that it was LT speaking. You don’t resign as head of an organization you founded, and which gave you immense power and prestige in the (Charedi) Jewish world because of doctored tapes. Let’s get real. And let’s hope the leaders get real, while there is still a chance to salvage some of their credibility.

*Vos Iz Neias (VIN): Suffern, NY – Noted Rabbi Abruptly Resigns From EJF; Famous Organization For Conversions

*Yeshiva World News (YWN): Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel Assumes EJF Leadership, Rav Leib Tropper Steps Down

*MATZAV: Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel Takes Over As Head of EJF, Rabbi Tropper Resigns

*Unorthodox-Jew (OUJ): Rabbi Reuvein Feinstein Head Of The Coverup For Leib Tropper!

*Failed Messiah (FM): TROPPER: Outreach Rabbi Resigns Amid Cloud Of Scandal

*Rationalist Judaism (Natan Slifkin): Rabbi Leib Tropper Resigns

*Jewish Updates: Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel Takes Over As Head of EJF, Rabbi Tropper Resigns

Here’s another post:

“kolpogimbo said…They offer nothing new in this emerging story. Everything they state can be gleaned from blogs etc.”

RaP: You miss the point. It’s the fact that they have now latched on to this horrid story means that the story has now risen above the mere blogosphere as it now enters the mainstream Jewish left-wing print and “legitimate” journalism media.

The NY Jewish Week is read by the movers and shakers in the ultra-Modern Orthodox world and by many influential liberal Jews. It is a paper sponsored by the secular UJA and it’s the armchair reading of the types of people who have no interest in blogs and hardly bother what’s on them.

This paper is dangerous to the frum world because it takes special delight un dwelling on the failings of Orthodox and Charedi rabbis in particular. They almost never dwell on the failings of Reform and Conservative clergy and there are plenty of scandals there all the time.

They are the ones who brought down R Boruch Lanner and inflicted great harm on the OU and its NCSY kiruv branch, so by them now focusing on the Tropper scandal a new and dangerous phase is started, it will harm GENUINE KIRUV and the needs of TRUE GEIRIM and it remains to be seen how they will run with this story in the weeks and months to come.

Once they are featuring this story of Tropper’s downfall, the larger papers like the New York Times and others like it will inevitably follow suit. Once that crowd picks up and runs with the story it will become like going from just a hand-grenade explosion on blogs, to a dynamite explosion on Jewish media to a nuclear explosion as the story goes global and viral as blogs feed off the so-called mainstream media and the main media gets more people focused on it and thus a massive Chillul Hashem befarhesya is created that Tropper will have to give an accounting for at some point.

“It was predictable that neiuf would be his downfall. Midah kneged midah”

RaP: While “Midah kneged midah” is right, it was never possible to know exactly where the already over-burdened rickety Tropper floundering ship would be punctured and finally sent on its way to the depths of oblivion, or of notoriety, simply because there eas so much happening on Tropper’s “ship of fools” at any given moment, from confrontations with other notable rabbis; accusations of major financial wrong-doing; rejection of normative Judaism in favor of a proselytization agenda by EJF that sounded more like a Christian evangelical scheme than anything that was ever taught in any yeshiva; controversial and inciting statements meant to antagonize and humiliate opponents; ongoing and unremitting wars against enemies such as Chabad, Aish HaTorah and Modern Orthodoxy; forging of documents being fraud; lies and cheating of all sorts to gain the upper hand being total amoral; manipultaion of senior rabbis and their views being misrepresented; harsh treatment of genuine converts; spousal abuse; running a personality cult with blind disciples with dangerous consequences; slandering respectable people of all sorts to achieve personal power and control and causing them pain and suffering in their lives; conniving to ruin careers of others and threatening to do so and more…all of which could have been THE moral turpitude that brought down the shameless Tropper, but in the end it was something more primal, his raw lusts and passions that remained entirely untamed as he went about outwardly spouting his religious “holier than thou” creed and blinding many with his ability to utter talmudic insights and say just the right rabbinic thing to impress and cover up for his more nefarious inward lecherous desires and filthy deeds.

A sad and sorry, albeit torrid, tale.

A PROSPECTIVE CONVERT POSTS: I am a prospective convert who was mentored by a rabbi through EJF for a few months. I do not think it’s accurate to say that they actually proselytized. What they do is provide a mentor to gentile spouses of Jews, or non-Jews descended from intermarriages, who are interested in converting. There is no persuasion, talking about why you should convert and so on. And they’re strict: in fact, the reason I stopped the process is that I realized I wouldn’t be able to complete the conversion, because my (born Jewish) wife is not (yet!) willing to commit to being completely observant for the rest of her life.
They also never told me anything about being required to believe that the earth is 6000 years old.

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Pants-Wearing Women Can Apply For Conversion Right Now On My Live Cam!

Act before Christmas while supplies last!

My conversions are accepted by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

Here’s my investigative report on women’s pants and the holy reasons rabbis want them removed.

Beth: Luke, I am afraid I do wear pants sometimes. I prefer pencil skirts but it’s very cold out in the morning when I’m leaving for work.
YourMoralLeader: harrumph
YourMoralLeader: see if you get through my Beit Din
Beth: I almost never wear a long skirt unless there’s a corset involved. I think they make my behind look huge.
YourMoralLeader: I’ll be the judge of that
Beth: I might not make it through your Beit Din but at least I know better than to let you take my pants off! I mean of course Tropper is in the wrong but come on, doesn’t the woman have to take any responsibility? It doesn’t seem like there was force involved.

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He Needed Rape, She Needed Conversion

Conversions to Judaism do not typically require rape of the would-be convert.

I did not have this experience, for instance.

Perhaps the holy rabbi was simply being scrupulous that the would-be convert did not wear pants (or panties). When he caught her wearing pants, perhaps he removed them for her spiritual benefit and to avoid the desecration of God’s name. Then he screwed her as the ultimate punishment to make sure she never repeated her sin.

I know that women going through the RCC conversion program can get into big trouble for wearing pants (though I have never heard of allegations of sexual impropriety against anyone currently conducting Orthodox conversions in Los Angeles). One friend of mine in the RCC program wore skirts while jogging around Pico-Robertson. Yes, late at night, the skirts often came off with her man, but I won’t go there because Judaism’s laws of holy speech prevent me.

I dated this woman who was going through the RCC. We had a date to go roller-skating on the Venice Board Walk. I believe she had checked with her rabbi at Aish HaTorah and he’d told her it was not so terrible to wear pants during athletics that made skirts difficult providing she was outside of the community and wouldn’t cause a stir.

So we get to the Venice/Santa Monica divide. I tell her I don’t want roller skate, that I have fragile bones, not enough calcium, they break easily, I tend tender loving care. I just want to walk.

So we’re walking along the park in Santa Monica overlooking the beach, two consenting adults celebrating the sunshine and exchanging tasty Torah tidbits, and she’s scared to death that she will run into someone she knows from Orthodox life.

After we run into the second frum family she knows, she makes us go to a department store and buy her a skirt.

And then she went off and married a rabbi!

Where’s the gratitude?

Over the years, I’ve given hell to a lot of women for wearing pants. I’m ashamed to admit this, but I’m with Rabbi Tropper in this regard — pants on a woman sicken me. It feels like a violation of everything I hold sacred.

I think that what most bothers me and rabbis such as Tropper about pants on a woman is that they can be very awkward and time-consuming to remove, time better spent studying text. Rabbi Tropper and I live our lives for Torah. If we’re going to lower ourselves to have sex with a would-be convert, we want to finish quickly so that we clean ourselves of her filth and return to studying Talmud and performing mitzvot to equal out the sin we just committed.

I guess I shouldn’t speak for the holy rabbi. This is just my thinking. Please don’t judge me. God made me this way. Your mileage in this matter may vary. These methods can cause you a lot of trouble if anyone finds out about them. Other Jews aren’t as understanding as I am. If your excitement lasts for longer than four hours, please consult a doctor. Do not do this stuff if you take nitrates for chest pain.

I still contend that long skirts are far superior to pants. They flatter a woman’s figure more readily than pants which too often reveal discomforting thickness around the thighs.

As my friends in Orthodox Judaism observe, the longer the skirt, the quicker it comes off.

Skirts can fall off wonderfully. It truly feels like an act of divine intervention. Then the Torah Jew can get his business done in a right smart fashion, relieve himself of the burden of his yetzer hara, and return to the path of righteousness, looking for bugs in lettuce and making sure that toilet bowl cleaner has hashgacha.

Ahh, now it becomes clear to me why toilet bowl cleaner must be kosher. I don’t think I’m revealing any secrets when I confess that a lot of us have watched all together too much porn. In many of Rocco Siffredi’s videos, for instance, the women get sodomized while having their heads dunked in the toilet.

So if you are a rabbi and you’re having rough sex with a would-be convert and you’re dunking her head in the toilet bowl while you’re plooking her, it is very important for the love of Christ that the toilet bowl cleaner be kosher.

From Failed Messiah:

The woman told FailedMessiah.com Tropper was

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Speaker Pelosi to shield vulnerable members from controversial votes

Stephen Steinlight emails: Despite high decibel aggressive junk talk by President Obama, the Hispanic Congressional Caucus, the appalling Rep. Guttierez, and what some took to be that very worrying interview with DHS Secretary Napoletano recently, I knew NOTHING would happen with “comprehensive immigration reform” in the coming year.
All one had to do was read between the lines of Napoletano’s remarks where she puts the entire onus on Congress. The WH wouldn’t come within 900 miles of this. For the Democrats to push CIR with a 17.5 Federal U-6 level would be to take the part of General Custer at the Big Horn. Even Nancy Pelois has more brains than that. Now we’ve got time to organize the American people for the showdown which, I predict, won’t come until after the NEXT presidential election, and perhaps never. But we must be ready, in the unlikely event. It may be the case that amnesty will always be just one year away.

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