The wars in Ukraine and Israel have become moralized and are rarely discussed as vital to America’s concrete interests. Why?
Jeffrey Alexander’s model of democratic ritual explains that political life typically operates at the mundane or “profane” level of goals, power, and interests. However, when a society enters a “nonroutine” state of crisis, public consciousness shifts toward the “sacred” level of values and norms.
The wars in Ukraine and Israel have undergone a “generalization of public consciousness”. By framing these conflicts as existential struggles for “democracy” or “civilization” against “evil” or “barbarism,” proponents move the debate from the level of concrete American interests—such as regional stability or resource management—to the level of sacred values that are perceived as being in danger.
In this framework, events like the invasion of Ukraine or the October 7 attacks are transformed from “signs” of specific geopolitical shifts into “symbols” of moral pollution. This transformation is essential for creating a “social consensus” that allows society to feel “aroused and indignant”. Once an event is viewed as “polluting the center” of sacred values, the mobilization of force becomes not just a policy choice but a moral imperative.
David Pinsof’s Alliance Theory explains this moralization. In this model, people do not primarily use moral language to reflect objective truth; they use it as a “signal” to coordinate with potential allies.
When American leaders speak of Ukraine in purely moral terms, they are creating a “focal point” for an alliance. Morality acts as a “pretext” that allows diverse groups with different underlying interests to synchronize their actions against a common enemy. If the discussion remained at the level of “concrete interests,” the coalition might fracture as different groups weighed the costs and benefits of involvement. By moralizing the conflict, the alliance raises the social cost of defection—anyone who questions the war is framed not as a realist but as a moral “polluter.”
David Pinsof’s broader “everything is bullshit” framework suggests that many human institutions and narratives are “evolutionary window dressing.” The moralized stories we tell about foreign wars are often “bullshit” in the sense that they are not the true drivers of our behavior.
Instead, these narratives are “adaptive deceptions” that allow us to pursue our interests while maintaining a reputation for being altruistic and principled. We speak of “universal human rights” or “the rules-based international order” because these tropes provide a high-status justification for actions that are actually driven by the strategic desire to weaken rivals or maintain dominant alliances.
The reason we rarely speak of “concrete interests” is that interest-based language is “profane” and lacks the power to coordinate mass alliances. In Alexander’s terms, interest-based arguments are too specific and mundane to trigger the “ritual process” that generates deep social commitment. In Pinsof’s terms, interest-based language is too honest about our motives, making it harder to recruit allies who want to believe they are fighting for a higher cause.
The transition from interests to morality is, in effect, a “purification ritual” that allows the state to exercise force while appearing to act only in the name of the “sacred center” of democracy and justice.
ChatGPT says: All three lenses fit together cleanly. They explain not just why these wars are moralized, but why interest talk is treated as suspect or immoral.
Start with the core move they share.
Moralization is not accidental. It is a coordination technology.
Democratic ritual explains the form
Ukraine and Israel have been lifted out of profane geopolitics into sacred space. Once that happens, interest talk feels like blasphemy. Alexander’s model applies directly. These conflicts are framed as struggles between purity and pollution, democracy and barbarism, civilization and chaos. Ritual language replaces strategy language. Symbols crowd out cost-benefit analysis.
When an issue becomes sacred, asking “what do we get” sounds like asking “what is justice worth.” That is the point.
Alliance Theory explains the timing
These wars became moralized when elite consensus hardened. Media, foreign policy institutions, NGOs, think tanks, and party leadership aligned early. Once alignment locks in, moral framing is the only stable equilibrium. Concrete interest debate risks revealing fractures. Moral unanimity suppresses them.
Alliance Theory predicts this move precisely. When an alliance commits to a course that is costly, risky, or ambiguous, it moralizes to prevent defection.
Why interest talk is treated as disloyal
Interest analysis introduces tradeoffs. Tradeoffs imply choice. Choice implies responsibility. Responsibility implies blame. Moral framing dissolves all of that.
Once Ukraine becomes “the defense of democracy” or Israel becomes “the defense of civilization,” dissent is no longer disagreement. It is contamination. That is classic pollution logic.
Democratic ritual explains the media style
Endless repetition. Simplified heroes and villains. Emotional saturation. Ritualized talking points. Performative outrage at neutrality. All of this matches Alexander’s liminal ritual space. The media is not informing. It is maintaining the sacred frame.
That is why coverage feels frozen. New facts do not change the narrative. They are absorbed or ignored.
Alliance Theory explains why this differs from past wars
America talked about interests in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan eventually because elite consensus fractured. Competing centers emerged. Once elites fought each other, moralization weakened and interest talk returned.
Ukraine and Israel remain elite consensus issues in most institutional spaces. So ritual persists.
Pinsof’s “everything is bullshit” explains the psychology
Pinsof’s point is not nihilism. It is signaling. People say what proves alliance loyalty, not what is empirically true or strategically useful.
Public moral certainty functions as a loyalty badge. Saying “this is complicated” or “what is our interest” signals insufficient commitment. So people do not say it, even if they privately think it.
Why elites prefer moral frames over interest frames
Interest frames invite audits. Moral frames block them.
Interest frames ask: costs, risks, escalation, opportunity cost.
Moral frames say: you are either with us or against decency.
From an alliance maintenance perspective, moral frames are superior under uncertainty.
Why this produces bad policy
Ritual suppresses feedback. When outcomes disappoint, leaders cannot adjust without admitting the sacred story was incomplete or false. That is why strategy ossifies. Moralized wars drift.
Why Israel and Ukraine feel “untouchable”
Both conflicts are treated as tests of identity rather than instruments of policy. Identity wars cannot be bargained. They can only be won or betrayed.
The quiet tell
The strongest evidence for your intuition is how rarely senior figures articulate a clear end state tied to American interests. That absence is not oversight. It is structural. End states force interest reckoning. Ritual resists endings.
Bottom line
Democratic ritual explains the sacred language.
Alliance Theory explains why elites enforce it.
Pinsof explains why individuals comply even when they know it is thin.
These wars are not discussed in interest terms because interest talk threatens alliance cohesion. Moralization is not confusion. It is governance by symbolism when costs are real and consensus is fragile.
Stephen Park Turner explains how elite coordination sustains itself once moralization is in place and why ordinary democratic correction mechanisms fail.
Stephen Turner’s core claim is that “expertise” is not neutral knowledge but a social authority claim. In alliance terms, expert consensus functions as a legitimacy shield. When elites push U.S. involvement in Ukraine or Israel, they do so less as elected representatives weighing interests and more as credentialed custodians enforcing “what must be done.”
Alliance Theory explains why elites align. Turner explains how they silence challenges without overt coercion.
Why interest talk is dismissed as ignorance
Turner shows that modern democracies defer to expert classes precisely when issues are complex and opaque. Foreign policy is the ideal domain for this. Ordinary citizens lack access to classified intelligence, diplomatic nuance, and military planning. This asymmetry allows elites to reframe disagreement as incompetence rather than dissent.
So when someone asks, “What is America’s concrete interest?” the reply is not an argument. It is a status move. “You don’t understand the situation.” That is classic expertise-based exclusion.
Democratic ritual plus expertise equals insulation
Alexander explains ritual sacralization. Turner explains insulation. Once a conflict is moralized and delegated to expert authority, democratic accountability collapses. Ritual supplies moral urgency. Expertise supplies procedural closure.
Together they produce what feels like inevitability. “We have no choice.” Turner repeatedly emphasizes that this phrase is the death of democratic reasoning.
Why elites prefer expert frames to interest frames
Interest arguments can be evaluated by laypeople. Costs, risks, tradeoffs, opportunity costs are intuitive. Expert frames cannot be easily audited. They rely on inaccessible knowledge, models, intelligence assessments, and credentialed interpretation.
From an alliance perspective, expertise is safer than persuasion.
Why dissenters are moralized and pathologized
You have noticed that critics are not just called immoral but unserious, naive, or unserveable. Turner explains this dual move. Moral condemnation handles values. Expertise condemnation handles competence.
This two-layer defense is extremely powerful. You are not only wrong. You are unqualified to speak.
How this differs from older democratic debate
Turner argues that earlier democratic theory assumed rotating judgment between elites and publics. Modern technocracy freezes judgment inside permanent expert institutions. That is exactly what you are seeing. Ukraine and Israel policy is treated as an expert domain, not a political one.
That is why elections barely register as corrective signals.
Why elites genuinely believe their own framing
Turner is not cynical. He argues elites internalize their role as stewards of rationality. They are not lying. They are performing what they believe expertise requires. This matters because it explains the intensity and sincerity of elite moralism.
Pinsof’s point fits here. They are signaling loyalty to the epistemic class they belong to, not consciously deceiving.
Why this leads to policy drift
Turner warns that expert authority lacks clear stopping rules. Interests provide endpoints. Ritual provides purification. Expertise provides process. None of these provide an exit ramp. That is why objectives blur and timelines extend.
Why Israel and Ukraine are especially expertized
Both involve intelligence services, military planners, regional specialists, and classified material. This maximizes the authority gap between elites and publics. Turner would predict exactly this outcome. High secrecy plus high moral stakes equals elite dominance.
What Turner adds that Alliance Theory alone does not
Alliance Theory explains power alignment. Turner explains epistemic monopoly. Without Turner, it looks like elites merely coordinate. With Turner, you see how they lock the door behind themselves.
Bottom line
Alexander explains sacralization.
Alliance Theory explains elite alignment.
Pinsof explains individual signaling.
Stephen Turner explains why democratic contestation never even gets traction.
The wars are elite-driven not just because elites agree, but because expertise has been weaponized as a moral and epistemic veto against interest-based democratic reasoning.
Gemini says: Stephen Park Turner explores the tension between expertise and democratic legitimacy. He argues that experts create a special kind of “liberal property” in the form of specialized knowledge. This knowledge gives them authority that bypasses the traditional democratic process. When elites push for involvement in Ukraine or Israel, they do not rely on popular vote. They rely on “expertise” in geopolitics, intelligence, and international law.
Turner suggests that elites use expertise to create a closure of the political field. They present their conclusions as the only rational options. If you apply Alexander’s model to Turner’s ideas, you see that expertise serves as the “sacred” boundary. The experts act as the priests of the ritual. They define what is a fact and what is a conspiracy. By framing the wars through expert consensus, elites move the decision-making process into a realm where the average citizen lacks the “intellectual property” to participate.
This fits with Pinsof’s alliance theory because expertise provides the ultimate camouflage for elite coordination. If elites say they are acting on “classified intelligence” or “strategic necessity,” they are using a signal that subordinates cannot easily challenge. It allows them to synchronize their actions across the State Department, the media, and think tanks. They form a “counter-center” that claims to represent the sacred values of the nation while actually pursuing the specific interests of the elite alliance.
The “bullshit” aspect of this is that the expertise often serves as a post-hoc justification for an alliance that already exists. Turner points out that expertise is often “socially constructed” to serve power. When the elite alliance decides to support a side in a conflict, the experts provide the “knowledge” that makes that support look like a moral and logical necessity. The “concrete interests” of the public are ignored because the public lacks the expert credentials to define what those interests are.
The result is a closed loop. The elites use expertise to moralize the conflict, which triggers the democratic ritual. The ritual then silences dissent by labeling it as “uninformed” or “impure.” The expertise does not lead to the policy; the policy leads to the expertise. In Turner’s view, this is a fundamental challenge to democracy because it replaces the will of the people with the “authoritative” signals of a specialized class. This elite-driven push uses the sacred language of Alexander and the signaling power of Pinsof to maintain its dominance over the profane realities of war and money.
