Comments at NYTimes.com:
* They are safest living in communities where there are very few other black youth.
* Where are black children’s manners? This young woman was disobeying her teacher and then refusing to cooperate with a police officer and—there are indications—was even hitting him. Did he overreact? Yes. Should he be a cop? No. But was the young woman free of any blame? No! In most of these sensationalized stories the so-called victim’s behavior and lack of respect for authority is what sets the events in motion.
* Did the officer act inappropriately? Yes, he did. He has lost his job and may face criminal charges for his actions.
Does the fact that the girl who is involved in the case is black and has a complex story that includes being in foster care mean that she should not be held to the same standard of behavior as her classmates? No, it does not.
Rules in school are “expressly designed to subjugate” ALL of the students, who are held to a “standard of absolute obedience” in that environment. I know defiant teenagers and I know cops. That is a pairing that will consistently lead to violence, irrespective of the color of their respective skin unless the police officer has been specifically taught to deal with the situation.
Her defiance — not her black skin — was what precipitated the extreme over-reaction from the school safety officer. That does not excuse his behavior, which was inexcusable. But if we turn this into a bias incident, we run the risk of missing what it really was and losing the opportunity to ensure that everyone from teachers to “safety officers” are better trained to deal with teenage defiance.
* Once again another police & black incident resulting from said black person refusing to obey a police officers instruction. You can also put this one in the “not only ignored but took a swing at the cop as well” column to boot.
All these Oh-the-racism! articles… you do realize that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the ‘incidents’ you cite BECAME incidents because the black “victim”(criminal?) involved ignored the police officer involved and/or attacked him. Every single one. That’s the problem. Don’t disobey/run from/attack/resist police and none of these incidents would have EVER occurred. Problem is on your end Roxane.
* It’s sad to say, but black children, for the most part, are not safe because they have to live right in the middle of a black community, where children born to unmarried folk comprise about 80% of the number. Where so many kids have to grow up without a father, often raised by an unfortunate maternal grandmother, their sense of discipline won’t be too great, and the street gangs are a result. We should feel nothing but sympathy for these black children, and it’s strange that our federal government doesn’t try to do something about this.
* The answer is that they’re safe where they obey the rules.
* Well we should measure progress in even the smallest steps: Michael Brown evidently has fallen off the list of black bodies worthy of complaint. She looked abused and she’s black. Brown was black and is dead and after much hoopla I guess it has been decided that those are not related facts. Don’t terrorize little girls is sound policy, but deciding it is because of her black body has no substantiation in this story. It reminds me of the riots in Cincinnati in 2001: after the curfew was announced complaints came in that arrests of black people were higher than white people, so the police were ordered to go to peaceful neighborhoods and find white people to arrest, which they did. So how long is going to be until South Carolina is under DOJ orders to make sure that suspensions and expulsions of white and others get more in line with the number of students?
* It seems everyone commenting agrees: the officer was wrong to use such force.
This beg a question or two:
Why do we as a society believe that an arrest by the authorities should be a pleasant and non-violent act? It rarely is, even under the most accommodating circumstances.
Also, how does one FORCE someone to comply (physically) who refuses to, once a situation escalates to that level. These are fair questions in light of the commentary here along with the news coverage this story has received.
Separately, the entire premise of this editorial is beneath publication by the Times. There is surely a place for this rhetoric on some blog, somewhere on the web.
* Dear Ms. Gray,
In response to your statement that Black children are not allowed to be children, it seems more accurate to say that black children have no respect for authority or rules of civil behavior. What happened in the classroom in South Carolina was horrendous and unacceptable. However, that a student refused to put away her cell phone speaks to an on-going problem of people not responding to authority in an acceptable manner. People that I know were taught at an early age to obey rules and that disobeying rules results in consequences. For instance when the teacher says put away cell phones and electronic devices, that means put away cell phones and electronic devices. When the police say, “Stop.” That means stop. When someone does not stop when the police say to stop, then the expectation is that one will be shot or detained in some unpleasant manner. We are taught to stop. When the teacher says to put away electronic devices or stop talking in class, or pay attention, or stop disrupting class, the expectation is to do what the teacher asks. Why do some people refuse to do what they are supposed to do in a civil society. Why have any children not learned to behave themselves in class and in public (or at home). Whose responsibility is it to teach children (and adults) to follow instructions, especially when the instructions make sense, like stop when the police say stop and put away cell phones in class. It’s a no brainer.
* Teacher asks student to give up cell phone be used AGAINST THE RULES during class. Student says no. Teacher orders student to leave class. Student says no. Administrator is called in and asks student to leave class. Student says no. SRO is called in and orders student to leave class. Again, student refuses. Violent incident ensues resulting in loss not by student but SRO. It is not about a cell phone. It is about the refusal of yet another black to follow rules and orders by authorities. Black attitudes are mirrored in the words of the Baltimore mayor who gave rioters “room to destroy” during the looting period after a drug dealer died. Either live in our civilized society under civilized rules and laws or pay the penalty. White, black, green or blue is irrelevant. Follow the rules and no one will bother you. Rule number one: do what a police officer tells you to do. Brown, Garner, Gray etc. would all be alive if they followed orders at the beginning of their interactions with police. Fight the police and you will lose every time!
* “Why didn’t she comply with white authority? The question should be “Why didn’t she comply with black authority?” The video shows the only adult in the classroom besides the police officer is a black man, who is either the schoolteacher or the principal who the teacher called to the classroom. for all we know both the teacher and the principal are black. They, not the police officer, decided to eject the student from the classroom. The police officer was merely doing their bidding.
* When I went to school, merely “being passive” after a teacher or principle told us to do something wasn’t tolerated. It’s not “what has happened to schools,” it’s “what has happened to families who don’t teach their children how to behave”.
* Color is irrelevant when a student refuses to obey school authority; I know a number of white students who have been forcibly restrained for this reason, and I’m tired of the race card when a black student has misbehaved and is justifiably disciplined (I do not approve of beatings by authorities, but I know restraint is sometimes required to keep order). From what I could see of this video, and from news reports, this black student repeatedly disobeyed the teacher and was disrupting the class. She created, perhaps intentionally, her own situation and her whining about it is inappropriate, as are the bleeding hearts comments in sympathy with her. Tough love, folks, not enabling, please.
* My daughter teaches in an almost all black school in DC. Truancy is about 50%. Students who have to take a test that takes more than a single page to answer complain about their rights being violated. One student in an all-black class accused her of discriminating against him because had dreadlocks. There are virtually no consequences for disruptive behavior.
When there are no consequences you get more disruption. These kids have been taught from kindergarten they are victims and they will not face any responsibility for their action.
* Let’s start with where black children aren’t safe. Black children are not safe in run down urban neighborhoods where they get caught in the cross fire of mostly black-on-black crime.
Could white America do a better job of investing in black lives, black neighborhoods and black potential? Of course. But what rational person is going to invest in a people that has torn itself apart with drugs, sex and violence?
The color of ones skin does not determine who a person is or who a person becomes, the environment they grow up in does. The environment that most black children grow up in encourages disrespect for authority, pushes an ‘I’m a victim’ mentality and doesn’t give black kids an opportunity to grow up in a good, strong family.
Get your act together and start being civilized. This isn’t white America trying to force its values on you, its common sense. Don’t let your rebelliousness and grievances stop you from doing whats right just to spite authority.
* It is an apparently irresistible impulse among some Americans to ascribe any unhappy encounter between a white person and a black person to racism.
The sheriff seems to be the one person in this whole chain of events to have gotten it right. The young woman’s refusal to leave the classroom after having been formally ejected by school officials amounted to trespass and directly escalated the situation to one necessitating physical extraction. Her resistance to physical extraction resulted in a struggle which overturned her chair. Only at this point did the deputy act unprofessionally, by throwing her across the floor.
For his single wrongful act in an otherwise lawful detention the deputy has been fired. Meanwhile, the troublesome teen is now lawyered up and accumulating race-baiting supporters like a cheap suit picks up lint.
Here’s a thought: how about we grow up, and maybe thereby help our kids to do likewise. The over-entitled brat at the center of this episode is not Rosa Parks, and this will not be a footnote, much less a chapter, in any honest history of civil rights in America. Roxane Gay could have written a much longer piece about this episode, and she still would not have been able to make it into something it is not.
* Roxane Gay continues to infantilize Blacks.
Because this 16 year old girl has the emotional maturity of a temper tantrum throwing 2 year old, she should be allowed to refuse to compy with the teacher’s order to put her phone away. She should be allowed to not comply with being told to leave the class twice.
Why? Because she is Black.
Ms Gay enables childish behavior over learning adult coping skills.
* People of all races can enhance their safety with a relatively simple formula:
1. Stay within the law, avoid risky behavior.
2. Avoid situations where you even APPEAR to be outside the rules extant
3. Be respectful to authority figures at all times, even when you disagree with them.
4. Do not fraternize with those who take delight in rebellion, or acting outside the law/rules extant.
5. Avoid travel except when necessary.
6. If you have nothing kind, or productive to say, say nothing.
There you have it, safety in a nutshell. Of course, I’m just an old fuddy-duddy.
* If black children are allowed to violate rules and defy authority, because they are given a special victim privileged status by our nation’s 1% media elites (who do not have to live or go to school with them) – then who will be safe from the violent behavior of these black 12 – 18 year old big enough to maim/kill others “children”? Certainly as the murder and other violent victim statistics indicate, the other 99% of law abiding black children and adults will not be safe from being shot or beaten by this criminal few that this author seems to think should be able to “be children” run wild and abuse everyone around them, because why …. they are black? What everyone seems to forget is how glad most of us were when a teacher would discipline of throw a criminal in the making out of a class so the rest of us could get back to learning something. Particularly since that “child” was often the “bully” that intimidated and beat up so many of our friends … that by the way the politically correct are supposed to be so very concerned about reigning in and stopping now a days. Pundits need to make up their minds! If they want minority children to have any chance of advancing themselves the bullies and future criminals are going to have to be punished until they obey, or be removed for the safety of the other children. Now of course if our ‘oh so liberal media don’t really care if the poor & minorities get a good education they can continue with this self pitying narrative.
* If a white kid is disrupting my daughter’s class, I am all for a police officer using force to remove him or her from the class.
If an asian kid is disrupting my daughter’s class, I am all for a police officer using force to remove him or her from the class.
If a black kid is disrupting my daughter’s class, I am all for a police officer using force to remove him or her from the class.
I care about the kids who want to learn. I do not care about the kids who want to impose their behavorial issues onto other students & hard working teachers. Stay home if you don’t want to learn.
* What the writer fails to mention is that there are reports that other students in the classroom say the student was disrupting them and their educational process. She was was busy texting, which is not allowed in class.
Whatever the case, we do know that she was violating the rules and not cooperating. That much is known.
We must ask: what else can the teacher do? If the student is disciplined or dismissed, officials will be called “racist.” If nothing is done, everyone suffers and the school and staff is told it isn’t doing its job.
Is it any wonder that responsible parents of children of all colors — white, black, Asian and Hispanic — who can afford to do so flee schools in which there are constant discipline problems? As a parent, I would quickly yank my kids of such a school and move far, far away.
Another question could be why is she, like so many of her black peers, in foster care? Where are the parents? Where, especially, are the fathers? Some 70 percent of black children today are born to a single mother.
Why is this not a problem among the Asian community? They certainly aren’t white. If there was a basis against non-whites, wouldn’t Asians be the “target,” too?
The key, of course, is intact families vs. non-intact families.
Until people such as Ms. Gay start tackling the problem of the lack of a black family structure, she has little ground to base her complaints on.
* The disrespect and misbehavior of many students today make it impossible to teach. I noticed 2 things in the video; the teacher who called the police officer is Black, and the other students were not upset at the police officer coming in. Apparently, this is business as usual at the school. My experience in the public schools showed me that 60-80% of students are in school only to pal around with their friends, and show off their defiance of the teachers. They flatly resist any attempt to teach them anything, passively or actively, and expect the kind of coddling that is appropriate only to toddlers.
* “Where Are Black Children Safe?”
In homes where their parents provide a safe, stable environment?
Whatever the skin color or ethnicity…start with that, eh?
* I try to keep my children safe. I try to practice positive parenting in the home. My wife and I eat dinner with our children almost every night. We closely monitor their exposure to television and screen time. They do not watch professional wrestling. We check their homework, meet with their teachers and go to museums. I remind my children to obey authority figures, even if they disagree with them. My children are taught to respect teachers, police officers, and bus drivers.
My child would have been safe in that situation because he would not have taken his phone out in class.
My child would have been safe because he would not have been playing with a realistic looking toy gun.
My child would have been safe because he would not have been selling loose cigarettes on street corners.
My child would have been safe because he would not have shoplifted from a store.
My child would have been safe because he would not have been walking the streets in the middle of the afternoon on a school day trying to rob cigar stores.
We can teach our children to act in a way that males them safe.
* There are three videos of the Spring Valley High School incident. All the videos clearly show that the officer did not apply force because the student was black, disrespectful, or disruptive. What would have been a simple arrest turns into a wrestling match because of her physical actions, not her race or attitude. The student desk in the video in a “combo desk” with the desktop attached to the seat. The desk design is what made it difficult for the officer to lift the student out of her seat. Had the desk been detached from the seat, there would have been no viral video and no controversy. One video shows that, as the officer attempts to lift her from her seat, she swings at him multiple times, trying to punch in the face, but ending up punching him in the chest. Rather than going limp, as protestors are taught to do in peaceful protests, she bucks and braces her legs against the bottom of the desk top. It is her violent bucking and twisting—not the officer—that upends the desk. He drags her across the floor only to loosen her grip on the desk. The videos show that he never struck her—even though he was being punched—and that he never applied a chokehold. The widespread media lie that the officer “tossed,” “threw” or “pitched” the student across the room is absurd. The officer is powerfully built, but he is not superhuman. The only violence in the videos is the direct result of the student’s physical actions, not her race or demeanor.
