Dennis Prager Vs Bret Stephens – All About Good & Evil

Dennis Prager writes:

Bret Stephens devoted his New York Times column last week to admonishing me for my tweet from two weeks ago and critiquing my follow-up column last week explaining the tweet.
The tweet reads, “The news media in the West pose a far greater danger to Western civilization than Russia does.”
Since he wrote the column as a “Dear Dennis” letter to me, I will respond in kind.
Dear Bret: I’ll try to respond to the most salient arguments you made. I’ll begin with one of the most troubling.
You wrote: “Wiser conservatives — and I count you among them, Dennis — also know that when we speak of ‘the West,’ what we’re talking about is a particular strain within it. Marx and Lenin, after all, are also part of the Western tradition, as are Heidegger and Hitler.”
I was taken aback that such a serious thinker could write that nihilist communists and nihilist Nazis are all “part of the Western tradition.”
That’s what the vast majority of professors in the social sciences teach: There’s nothing morally superior about Western civilization — it’s as much about Hitler and Lenin as it is about Moses and Thomas Jefferson. And, anyway, Moses never existed and Jefferson was a slaveholding rapist. Among those professors’ students are virtually all those who dominate the Western news media.
Am I wrong? Do you think your colleagues at the Times or the Washington Post or Le Monde or BBC believe in the moral superiority of the West?
Of course they don’t. Most believe in multiculturalism — the doctrine that all cultures are equal — and it is therefore nothing more than white racism to hold that Western civilization is superior. Didn’t nearly all of your (nonconservative) colleagues who commented on President Trump’s speech in Warsaw call it a dog whistle to white supremacists?
On those grounds alone, my tweet was accurate.
I am surprised that anyone — especially you — thinks Vladimir Putin’s Russia poses a greater threat to the survival of Western civilization than the Western left. No external force can destroy a civilization as effectively as an internal one — especially one as powerful and wealthy as the West. The Western left (not Western liberals) is such a force. Western liberals always adored the West.
I was also stunned by your saying, “I’m not sure that Justin Trudeau declaring there is ‘no core identity, no mainstream in Canada’ counts as a Spenglerian moment in the story of Western decline.”
The prime minister of Canada announces with pride that his country has no core identity and you don’t think that counts as an example of a declining civilization?
And here’s another upsetting sentence: “To suggest that Vladimir Putin is a distant nuisance but Maggie Haberman or David Sanger is an existential threat to our civilization isn’t seeing things plain, to put it mildly.”
The reason I found that troubling is I never cited Haberman or Sanger, and you well know that no generalization includes every possible example — that’s what makes it a generalization. But I did specifically cite the writers in The Atlantic who equated Western civilization with white supremacy, and your substitution of your New York Times colleagues for The Atlantic commentators allowed you to avoid dealing with The Atlantic writers’ and others media attacks on Western civilization.
Despite the fact that neither my tweet nor my column said a word about Trump, you devoted almost half your column to denouncing the president. Yet, as I wrote in the column, my tweet would have been just as accurate had I sent it out during former President Obama’s administration or Hillary Clinton’s, if she were president.
Bret, to your great credit, you are a lonely voice of strong support for Israel at your newspaper (your readers should see the videos on the Middle East you made for Prager University; they have eight million views for good reason). Doesn’t the almost uniform hostility toward Israel in the media and academia trouble you? Does it trouble you that most Democrats in America hold a negative view of Israel? That Jewish students at many American, not to mention European, universities fear expressing support for Israel or just wearing a yarmulke on campus? That so many young American Jews, influenced by the media and their professors, loathe Israel? I am certain all of that greatly troubles you. Is any of that Putin’s doing? Or is it all the result of the media and academia?
You mentioned that you will be sending me a birthday gift, a book about Putin’s Russia, “Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible” by Peter Pomerantsev. I promise to read it. And I request a promise in return: Read the book I am sending you, “The Strange Death of Europe” by the eminent British thinker Douglas Murray. The book describes Europe’s suicide at the hands of its progressive elites — in particular, its multiculturalism-affirming political leaders and mendacious news media. To the best of my recollection, in describing the death of European civilization, Murray doesn’t mention Putin once. (Regarding the mendacious media, read the report published this week in Germany about the dishonesty in the German media, which routinely substitutes left-wing opinion for facts in reporting the immigrant crisis in Germany.)
Perhaps the most troubling part of your response was your penultimate line: “Don’t be a hater, Dennis.”
Where did that come from? You cite not a single hateful word in my column — because there are none to cite. And “hater” has become the all-purpose left-wing epithet to dismiss all conservatives. Why would my friend Bret Stephens use it?

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Andrew Joyce & Kevin MacDonald – Beyond Good And Evil

From an objective perspective, I do not see how one can love or hate any group. The world consists of blacks and whites, mosquitos and Mexicans, lions and lambs, and these different forms of life have different evolutionary group strategies. When groups compete for scarce resources, there are winners and losers, and sometimes groups die out while others flourish and expand. A life form is either expanding or contracting.

From where I stand, that’s the objective perspective on life, and it is the one I generally strive for when I analyze the world on this blog though I grant that it is impossible to live this way, one can’t help but go through life speaking of right and wrong and dividing the world into good guys and bad guys.

As Kevin MacDonald (KMAC) puts it in his book A People That Shall Dwell Alone: Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy: “The idea of group strategies presents a quite different paradigm for human behavior. From a group strategy perspective, human societies are seen as ecosystems in which different human groups are analogous to species occupying a common ecosystem and engaging in competition and/or reciprocity with each other. Thus, in the natural world, an ecosystem may comprise producer species as well as several levels of predator species and parasitic (and hyperparasitic) species. Species may also enter into mutually advantageous roles vis-à-vis each other–what ecologists term mutualism. Each species may be viewed as having an evolutionary strategy by which it adapts to a particular ecosystem.”

“As in a natural ecosystem, it verges on theoretical impossibility for one species to develop the role of predator, parasite, and primary producer.”

In my naive days, I thought Jews were inevitably a blessing to the non-Jews they lived among, but now I see that it is as obvious as the nose on my face that all groups, including Jews, sometimes have a negative impact on out-groups in addition to neutral and positive effects. Just as Englishmen pursuing English interests have often had a negative effect on non-Englishmen and Muslims on non-Muslims and Christians on non-Christians, so too Jews in their pursuit of Jewish interests (for example, it might in Jewish interests for goyim to believe that they have proposition nations rather than blood and soil nations so that Jews can be full participants in these proposition states, but belief that one’s country is a proposition nation is pure poison, and thus what may be good for Jews is bad for gentiles) have inevitably done harm to non-Jews, just as non-Jews in their pursuit of gentile interests, have inevitably done harm to Jews (such as the Holocaust). To put it simply, life is sometimes war. What is good for one group (such as control of a particular territory) is often bad for other groups.

Once one has made the inevitable leap to loving a group, usually one’s own, then I do not see how a healthy person concerned with his own group’s welfare can avoid hating one’s enemy (and every group has enemies). If you are black and Jews are moving into your neighborhood, buying up property and influence, how can you not have negative feelings about Jews? If you are Jewish and you are sharing a community with blacks who commit a lot of crime and suck up government welfare, how can you not have negative feelings about blacks? To love your people means to hate its enemies. Such love and hate are simply two sides of the same coin — affiliation and affection for a particular people. Ties bind and blind. We naturally see our own people in the best light and out-groups in lesser light.

On Sunday, I spoke to intellectual Andrew Joyce, who wants the West to be Juden-free. Ironically, we started our conversation discussing Game of Thrones, and one way that Andrew saw that TV show as having parallels with the Alt Right was that the characters in it rarely were rarely controlled by abstract and universal moral dictums. Instead, they were preoccupied with what was best for themselves and for their families and for their groups.

Yet when we analyze Andrew Joyce’s writings, we see that he frequently moralizes about group-conflicts between Jews and gentiles. The free market perspective on life, by contrast, is that if adults freely arrive at a contract, there is no meaning to terms such as “exploitation” or “parasitism.” Instead, these terms denote a juvenile placing of moral labels on deals that do not deserve them.

If a Jew sells a payday loan to a goy with an interest rate of 1000%, is there a bad guy in this transaction? I don’t see it. Anybody so foolish to take such a deal is going to have a lifetime of equally foolish decisions behind him and in front of him, so this particular transaction is just a symptom rather than a cause of the dumb goy’s decline.

If a Jew tells a grown goy to suck off a dog, and the goy sucks off the dog and dislikes the taste, who’s the bad guy?

I can’t summon much indignation against other parties when I think back on my life and all the bad deals in the marketplace I’ve freely made (when there was no lying and illegal or unethical behavior). Therefore, I find it hard to summon indignation against the free market. Sure, the dumb get screwed, but the dumb get screwed in any system. Why are the Jews or any middle man minority the bad guys if they legally and ethically do a job better than their competitors? If they use underhanded means, then I understand and share the antipathy.

Andrew Joyce wrote: “The Jews of the Middle Ages engaged in no productive labor, almost all of them living parasitically from moneylending.”

Weren’t some of these Jews peddlers and engaged in other forms of commerce? How is peddling not productive? Does productivity only come from working the land? How is lending money less productive than other economic transaction? I don’t believe that lending money at interest becomes immoral at any particular interest rate if the deal is made between consenting adults and is conducted on legal and open terms. To say that lending at 30% interest is immoral is an arbitrary and moralistic designation.

Would you say that Jews today in the West engage in no productive labor and only exploitation? If not, what has changed from the Middle Ages? Jews gave us Hollywood, Google and Facebook. Have not these institutions enhanced our lives?

I remember Andrew saying on a podcast that when money enters into Jewish hands, it stays there. It doesn’t circulate back out to the goyim.

Well, this completely contradicts my Chicago-school education in Economics where I was told that money circulates. If Jews accumulate money, they hire more goyim. They don’t sack their money away under mattresses. Instead, they buy boats and blow and hookers and books and music and TV studios and land and buildings and create charities, just as gentiles do when they accumulate money. How could this money stay within the Jewish community? It beggars the imagination.

I’ve read a bit of Kevin MacDonald and a bit of Andrew Joyce and I think the major difference between them is that Andrew is more likely to condemn Jewish-gentile interactions such as money-lending as parasitic while Kevin is more likely to point out group conflicts with less if any moral judgment.

I searched People That Shall Dwell Alone for every mention of “paras” and found six examples and none of them were for KMAC describing Jews as parasites. The closest that he comes is in this passage, which is more philo-semitic than anti-semitic: “The belief in the superiority of Jewish intelligence has been common among Jews and gentiles alike. Patai and Patai (1989, 146ff) review data indicating that Jewish intellectual superiority was a common belief among many 19th-century and early 20th-century scholars, including some for whom the belief in Jewish intellectual superiority had anti-Semitic overtones: Galton and Pearson believed that Jews had developed into a parasitic race which used its superior intelligence to prey on gentiles. Castro (1954, 473) shows that both scholars and the populace agreed that the Jews of Spain had superior intelligence…”

A search for “paras” in KMAC’s book The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements yields only this mention: “The success of the Jews then constituted a trauma to the gentile bourgeoisie, “who had to pretend to be creative” (p. 175); their anti-Semitism is thus “self-hatred, the bad conscience of the parasite…””

In the KMAC book Separation and Its Discontents: Toward an Evolutionary Theory of Anti-Semitism, a search for “paras” yields seven results. Here is the first one:

Similar themes of oppression resulting from Jewish moneylending combined with oppression by gentile elites occur in a 19th-century account on Morocco:

As money-lenders the Jews are as maggots and parasites, aggravating and feeding on the diseases of the land. I do not know, for my part, which exercises the greatest tyranny and oppression, the Sultan or the Jew,—the one the embodiment of the foulest misgovernment, the other the essence of a dozen Shylocks, demanding, ay, and getting, not only his pound of flesh, but also the blood and nerves. By his outrageous exactions the Sultan drives the Moor into the hands of the Jew, who affords him a temporary relief by lending him the necessary money on incredibly exorbitant terms. Once in the money-lender’s clutches, he rarely escapes till he is squeezed dry, when he is either thrown aside, crushed and ruined, or cast into a dungeon, where fettered and starved, he is probably left to die a slow and horrible death.

To the position of the Jews in Morocco it would be difficult to find a parallel. Here we have a people alien, despised, and hated, actually living in the country under immeasurably better conditions than the dominant race, while they suck, and are assisted to suck, the very life-blood of their hosts. The aim of every Jew is to toil not, neither to spin, save the coils which as money-lender he may weave for the entanglement of his necessitous victims.

Not once in his Jewish trilogy does KMAC label Jews as “parasites” or their activity as “parasitic.”

My argument is that the use of such as terms for middle men minorities denotes subjectivity, moralism, and arbitrariness. It seems like venting rather than logic. There are only two honorable forms of disputation — to clash over facts and logic. Terms like “parasites” and “exploiters” when applied to the freely chosen economic activity of adults are subjective appeals to emotion. I prefer more objective thinking about group conflicts.

I understand that objectivity is not the only prize in writing and that you can’t read a cry from the heart the same way you would study a textbook of economic analysis. So perhaps Andrew Joyce and Kevin MacDonald belong to separate genres — KMAC’s work is primarily analysis and Andrew’s work is rhetoric in service of white nationalism.

One possible explanation for the greater antipathy towards Jews in the writings of Andrew Joyce when compared with KMAC is that KMAC writes under his real name while Andrew Joyce is a pseudonym. People using their real name tend to be more toned down than the anonymous activist.

On the other hand, KMAC birthed “Andrew Joyce.” There never would have been an “Andrew Joyce” without KMAC. And KMAC first published him, and others like him, at The Occidental Observer, where many of the writers and commenters use language about Jews that KMAC would not use.

I can see a strong argument that Andrew Joyce is the logical culmination of Kevin MacDonald.

Returning to Andrew Joyce’s critiques of Jews, I find myself unable to summon any indignation that Jewish butchers have sold inferior non-kosher meat to goyim at inferior prices. In general, inferior goods sell at inferior prices when compared with superior goods. In my life, I have frequently paid inferior prices for inferior goods. This doesn’t upset me. I don’t see a good guy or a bad guy in these transactions. If Jews sell cheap loans, cheap liquor, cheap meat, cheap clothes to goyim at cheap prices, who’s the bad guy here? I don’t see it. If Jews make dumb TV that the goyim love, and idiotic music, and this sells and makes Jews a big profit, who’s the bad guy? The Jew for selling it or the goy for buying it?

If Jews out-compete gentiles in certain areas of business (while abiding by the law of the land and conventional ethics), and gentiles out-complete Jews in other areas of business, then what’s the big deal? Different groups have different interests and different abilities.

On the other hand, I am not a free market purist. I don’t regard capitalism as the ultimate value. There are many consensual interactions between adults that Judaism (to which I converted in 1993) regards with contempt. When a man tempts a woman into prostitution, they’re both acting low. When one adult sells illegal drugs to another adult, they’re both acting low. When an adult brother has sex with his adult sister, they’re both acting low. When an adult man has sex with another adult man, they’re both acting low. When adult men go around in public wearing women’s clothing, they’re acting low. When adults mutilate themselves in an attempt to change their sex, they’re acting low. In fact, for many of these interactions, Judaism regards them as so low that it prescribes the death penalty.

Against the media’s onslaught against everything I hold precious, I cling to my guns and to my religion.

Goldwin Smith was a 19th Century professor of English at such places as Cornell. In 1892, he published an essay on The Jewish Question:

A community has a right to defend its territory and its national integrity against an invader, whether his weapon be the sword or foreclosure. In the territories of the Italian Republics the Jews might, so far as we see, have bought land and taken to farming had they pleased. But before this they had thoroughly taken to trade. Under the filling Empire they were the great slave traders, buying captives from barbarian invaders and probably acting as general brokers of spoils at the same time. They entered England in the train of the Norman conqueror. There was, no doubt, a perpetual struggle between their craft and the brute force of the feudal populations. But what moral prerogative has craft over force?

Mr. Arnold White tells the Russians that, if they would let Jewish intelligence have free course, Jews would soon fill all high employments and places of power to the exclusion of the natives, who now hold them. Russians are bidden to acquiesce and rather to rejoice in this by philosophers, who would perhaps not relish the cup if it were commended to their own lips. The law of evolution, it is said, prescribes the survival of the fittest. To which the Russian boor may reply, that if his force beats the fine intelligence of the Jew the fittest will survive and the law of evolution will be fulfilled. It was force rather than fine intelligence which decided on the field of Zama that the Latin, not the Semite, should rule the ancient and mold the modern world.

This critique rings true to me. Any community has the right to defend itself. If that community can’t out compete Jews in a free market, then I would expect it to rig the market by all means necessary. Any group that does not put its own survival first is not likely to last. Your people’s survival seems more important to me than allegiance to universalist ethics.

Jon*:

I’m not saying Aquinas was right, but your ice-cold “if a goy will suck off a dog” take is challenged by the view that a just person wouldn’t make such an unjust offer… the reason it’s worth understanding is that Aquinas seems to envision a brotherhood of man trading with other members of the brotherhood–no trace of tribal interests here. A just Christian wouldn’t charge another Christian 1000% because justice, brotherhood. But the usurious Jewish lender sees the Christian as “other,” right? So,… offer them a terrible & unjust deal. I guess the question is, is justice only tribal, or can we imagine a justice that encompasses two separate cultures?

The advantage does seem to go, perennially, to the person who practices tribal, rather than universal, justice… cuz they can always stiff the universalist, while the universalist won’t acknowledge any differences between the two exist. What a scam!

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Trump – Beyond Good & Evil

Comments at Steve Sailer:

* Is Trump perhaps a vehicle of other-worldly forces quite beyond himself, a figure not really comprehensible in normal categories, given the degree of both good & evil in which he is involved?

* Well… perhaps encouraging “Trump Derangement Syndrome” actually serves Trump’s interest:

A) It distracts his enemies somewhat from attacking him on real substantive policy issues.

B) Any sane middle-of-the-road types can see that the Left is really jumping the shark on this Russia thing.

C) It makes Trump look like a sensible peace-loving fellow on the world scene.

D) The people who are really into TDS would always hater Trump in any case.

E) It encourages a lot of us who are sort of lukewarm on Trump to rally to his side simply because we so despise his crazy/corrupt enemies.

* Looks good to me. He’s clearly gearing up for a fight. Scaramucci is brilliant [American, not British English here]. Above all the Warsaw speech was everything we could have possibly asked for. The subsequent apparent support offered by Netanyahu and Marcon seem to indicate some sort of major deal opening the door for the full Trump foreign policy agenda. Fingers crossed.

* I am thrilled with Trump. He recently undid a Johnson era order restricting churches from commenting on politics. That’s something neither Bushs or Reagan did despite their support from Evangelicals. And it wasn’t even one of his campaign promises!

And, withdrawing funding for CIA activities in Syria – awesome! One step closer to getting out of that mess.

I realize that the wall isn’t built yet and he could screw everything up with an amnesty. And he’s facing real risk of removal from office. But I’m encouraged. He’s showing us how to fight the beast, and that the beast bleeds.

* What I love most about Trump’s successful use of ‘Fake News’ is that initially the term was used by Trump’s enemies in the media. Just after the election, one of their explanations for Trump’s victory was that gullible Trump voters were swayed by pro-Trump ‘Fake News’. Then Trump took that term and applied it to the media that was against him.

A colossal backfire by the media.

* One bit of good news that has been overlooked. Seems HUD may “reinterpret” the ghastly AFFH rules.

Let’s hope Ben Carson kills it altogether, rather than just modifies it.

Dream scenario: Trump puts the kibosh on ALL Section 8 housing.

* Trump is one of those guys that you have to listen to carefully, all the time. He means exactly what he says – but you have to pay attention to context. Every single detail is important.

Trump discussed a completely theoretical situation about Sessions with the reporter that leaked information from Comney. He considers the failing NYT fake news and that particular reporter would garner all the disgust a traitor would deserve. Why grant him an interview at all? Meanwhile, he didn’t say anything personal about Sessions, other than about a theoretical situation that didn’t actually happen. For all we know, Sessions discussed recusing himself from Russia with Trump or least made the decision after become AG.

Remember, Trump has cameoed on TV everywhere, including WWF matches. If you didn’t believe he beat up the CEO of the WWF, then it might be best to withhold judgement on the idea he beat up his amazingly loyal AG. Sessions was bright, perky, and a little too confident in my estimation at next day’s press conference. Like perhaps he knew that it wasn’t real.

Personally, I think Trump had a reason for that interview and the Sessions WWF match, which will become clear later. We’ll see.

* Trump cannot be judged by traditional metrics. Every president in my lifetime came to Washington with an agenda, a vision to make the country into something else. They came with a long list of things to fix. Trump came to Washington with a list of things to break.

So far, he has managed to break the media. It is amazing how often I hear the term “fake news” and not always in the context of politics. Sports fans are now on to the fact that most sports news is fake. The rumor and gossip are all made up. One guy claims “sources” said something and the rest of the media repeat as if it is fact. When it does not pan out, it is on to the next fake story.

I think he is breaking the immigration bloc in Washington too.

* What his enemies forget is that he’s much smarter than most of them; perhaps all of them. He pops out a tweet that he knows will be provocative, then sits back and watches media squander what little credibility it has left – outraging its brains out. His enemies must – MUST – come up with something substantial on Russia. Anything. Otherwise this last 6 months is a big lump of coal in their 2020 stocking. Everyone is sick to death of hearing about it, everyone is sick to death of the open-ended accusations levelled at him. Right now, time is on his side.

* With a 140 characters or less, Trump can force his enemy to start writhing on the ground and foaming at the mouth, utterly discrediting them. That is without doubt one of his most politically useful abilities.

* Gorsuch saved gun rights in America. Garland would have voted with the four leftists to overturn Heller which had ruled that the 2nd Amendment protected individual rights and not militias. This is a very big deal.

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Gizmodo: This Is the First Picture Ever Taken From Space—and It Was Taken From a Nazi Rocket

Gizmodo:

This grainy picture was taken on October 24, 1946, almost 14 months after the end of World War II and almost 11 years before the Sputnik launch. It was taken by American military engineers and scientists, using a Nazi rocket launched from the White Sands Missile Range, in New Mexico.

Yes, a Nazi rocket—the V-2.

At the time there was no NASA, and human space exploration wasn’t a mainstream idea. The only people who were really thinking about spaceships at the time were the Nazis of a few years earlier and their spitzenreiter mad rocket science, a man by the name of Wernher Magnus Maximilian, Freiherr von Braun.

Von Braun dreamed about spaceships and wanted to build rockets at all cost, so he became a member of the Allgemeine SS and the Nazi Party. It was then that Hitler gave him the money, material and slave labor to built the V-2, the rocket bomb that terrorized London at the end of the WWII, morals be damned.

But by 1946, von Braun had become an American rocket scientist. And the Americans had a bunch of V-2s, having seized the ones that weren’t launched or were under construction when the Allies captured their launch and factory sites at the end of the war. They were imported to the United States, along with Von Braun.

Von Braun and the Americans kept working on these and other missile designs while launching the existing V-2s into space for testing. One of the engineers, Clyde Holliday, had developed a 35mm camera that took a photo every second and a half. None of the other scientists and engineers cared much about photography. They only wanted information about cosmic rays and aerodynamic performance.

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Steve Sailer: ‘Netanyahu Invites Visegrad Eastern Europeans to Summit Next Year in Jerusalem’

Steve Sailer writes:

Back in early 2014, I predicted that liberal Jews around the world would increasingly turn toward their old home culture of Germany for leadership, while nationalist Jews would look toward better ties with Eastern Europe. That’s more or less working out, although more with Israel aligning with rightwing Hungary and Poland than with Russia.

From the Times of Israel on Netanyahu’s meeting in Budapest with the Visegrad Alliance (Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia):


“I think Europe has to decide if it wants to live and thrive or if it wants to shrivel and disappear,” he said in a closed-door meeting whose content was accidentally broadcast to journalists outside the room. “I am not very politically correct. I know that’s a shock to some of you. It’s a joke. But the truth is the truth — both about Europe’s security and Europe’s economic future. Both of these concerns mandate a different policy towards Israel.”

During the meeting, Netanyahu also urged the leaders of Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Poland to close their borders to refugees from Africa and the Arab world, and praised the administration of US President Donald Trump for its “stronger” position on Iran and Syria. …

“If I can suggest that what comes out of this meeting is your ability, perhaps, to communicate to your colleagues in other parts of Europe: Help Europe… Don’t undermine the one Western country that defends European values and European interests and prevents another mass migration to Europe.”

The prime minister has often claimed that Israel is a bulwark preventing Europe from being flooded with refugees and migrants from Africa and the Middle East. …

Earlier, during the closed meeting, Netanyahu also expressed clear backing for the so-called Visegrad Group’s support of border fences to guard Europe from another wave of refugees from the Middle East. …

He said he believes in the free flow of goods and ideas — “but not people… Secure your borders. Secure your borders,” he urged the Eastern European leaders.

From Reuters:


EU eastern states say bloc must show more support for Israel

Marton Dunai and Jeffrey Heller
July 19, 2017.

BUDAPEST/JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Europe should better appreciate Israel’s key role in Middle Eastern stability, leaders of four central European nations said on Wednesday in a joint attack with Israeli premier Benjamin Netanyahu on Brussels’ current policy toward the state.

The comments were the latest example of divergence between west and east Europe, where questions of national sovereignty, migration and civic freedoms have also stirred friction. U.S. President Donald Trump lent support this month to Poland, target of criticism by the EU he has disdained, with a visit to Warsaw.

Netanyahu met the Visegrad Four leaders of Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, who backed Israel and called for an improvement in the EU’s relations with the state.

“I think Europe has to decide whether it wants to live and thrive or it wants to shrivel and disappear,” Netanyahu told the leaders of the eastern EU states behind closed doors in Budapest.

In an audio recording of the remarks obtained by Reuters, Netanyahu goes on to say: “It’s a joke. But the truth is the truth, both about Europe’s security and Europe’s economic future. And both of these concerns mandate a different policy toward Israel.”

Israel has often been criticized in Western Europe on matters such as its settlement policy. The recent closeness of Netanyahu with leaders like Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has been viewed with suspicion in the European Union.

“We’re part of European civilization. You look at the Middle East – Europe stops in Israel. That’s it.”…

The group will meet in 2018 in Jerusalem at Netanyahu’s invitation.

“The Visegrad Four shares the Israeli view that external border defense is key,” Orban told a press briefing. “Free movement of people without controls raises the risk of terror.”

Orban has been criticized in the EU for erecting a razor wire border fence and refusing to accept migrants under EU agreements, preferring “ethnic homogeneity”.

Comments at Steve Sailer:

* With official Israeli imprimatur, keeping European countries European just inched closer to acceptance among Jewish and white liberals.

* Most younger American Jews hate hate hate Israel and Bibi. The cold civil war among Jews is similar to the rest of Whites.

* If Israel had open borders, African migrants could travel through it on their way to Europe by land (or on their way to sail to Europe from further north than Africa). So Netanyahu could argue his border fence on the Sinai is a sort of bulwark for Europe.

* The future of Europe has nothing to do with its policies towards Israel. Germany is arguably the nicest nation in the world towards Israel, besides the USA, and it is being overwhelmed by non-Europeans. Come to think of it the USA is being overwhelmed by non-Europeans too.

Israel helps foment mass migration to Europe through its support of ISIS and anti-Assad forces. Just like the Gulf Arabs, Turkey, Uncle Sam and the EU, they are literally destroying the mid east nations and flooding Europe with the aftermath.

…one might make the case that the more pro-Israel one is, the more support for open borders and immigration one is. Take a look at the strongest supporters of Israel in the USA and you will probably find 60 percent or more are in support of more immigration and freer movement of peoples. And it is not confined to Jews. Neocon gentiles like McCain, Graham and a host of others all appear to be inclined for more immigration and looser border restrictions.

I know there are exceptions, but all in all more Israel-firsters and pro-Israel people in the USA are more liberal on borders and immigration for the USA while simultaneously supporting Israel’s very restrictive immigration polices to preserve her demographic condition.

* …if Jewish Left does this and if Jewish Right does that and if they don’t bash each other, they get the best of both worlds.
I think even most Jewish Left is for open borders for the West, not for Israel. And even though Israel forged closer ties with Hungary and Poland, it hasn’t denounced the massive invasion of much of Europe by Muslims and Africans.

If White Left did this and if White Right did that but if they never attacked one another and acknowledged common interests, things would be great.

Jewish Left and Jewish Right may have different strategies, but both are committed to Jewish identity and interests.

After all, the Jewish Left is for massive migration into gentile nations, not into Israel. Perhaps, Soros is an outlier, but most Liberal Jews are more like Richard Cohen or Thomas Friedman.

Even Norman Finkelstein, harshly critical of Israel as he is, isn’t for massive immigration of non-Jews into Jews. If anything, his solution for Israel-Palestinian conflict is pretty nationalist. Let Jews keep Israel, let Palestinians take West Bank.

* Heaven knows I’m no apologist for (((them))), but, as Mr. Brimelow might say, at least they brush their teeth. They don’t go ’round raping children, hewing people in the subways with axes, and flying planes into skyscrapers.

I presume that’s the connection being suggested here: they stand with the free peoples of the West just as, but for geography’s largely obviating things (for now) I expect Japan would. It’s a matter of concentric loyalties. I’m no fan of Jewry’s parasitism of we Europeans, but I’ll stand beside an Israeli any day against an African or an Arab to defend European interests. The truth is, Israel may yet prove to be crucial in inevitable wars, for the same geographical reasons that Gibraltar, Ceuta, and Melilla may be. The Kingdom of Jerusalem did much to spare Europe the horrors of the barbarians; the state of Israel may yet again.

* This is just the same good cop/bad cop entryist routine that’s been going on for millennia now. When they start supporting the right for countries to exclude Jews, then you’ll know that they’re acting in good faith. Until then, it’s just opportunism.

* Now that Bibi has mentioned this, he can move to the next step by encouraging all of Europe and British/European settler countries to adopt Israel’s immigration and demographic policies.

* I wonder what effect, if any, this unambiguous praise by the Israeli head of state for European immigration restriction will have on the white nationalist memeplex that all Jews everywhere support fully open borders for Europe but closed borders for Israel. (I suspect little if any, because at this point it’s so deeply entrenched that it would cognitively painful for many to update their views.)

* If the non-GB parts of the Anglosphere count as part of European Civilization, which it certainly seems to me as though they should be, a case can be made for Israel. It’s a tricky one. With friends like Jews, who needs enemies you might say. But on the other hand, if you are going to make enemies of the Jews you want to be sure to have a majority of the countries on your side because if not they will soon be against you. (And as Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% Italian by DNA, and the other not that far away (it’s not like they are SSA or East Asian), and have lived in Europe for a long time, I’d be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. If you ask their liberal members, whether they are white depends on what’s in it for them at that given point in time, AFAICT. I think most Jews on the right would consider themselves white. And irrespective of what they consider themselves, walking down MLK BLVD at 3AM, they would be considered white.)

Is this good for the Jews? The theory evidently had been that with a Eurosphere that is increasingly European in name only and increasingly anti-European, this will work out just swell for a people that are identified as European or if Jewish, an especially pernicious type of European. In reality this is very questionable which is why I think more pragmatic people like Bibi are trying to turn the ship around.

* During the 70s and 80s, Israel got along pretty well with Apartheid South Africa and Pinochet’s Chile, which were the two most hated regimes among the European Left. Working with Poles and Hungarians who just want to keep out hostile migrants should be a lot easier for Israel.

* He strongly encouraged the US to invade Iraq. Strongly supports overthrowing Syria’s Assad. Supports Sunni KSA against Shiite crescent, despite 25+ years of Sunni terrorism in the United States.

He doesn’t seem to place much value on the lives of gentile Americans, including our servicemen. What are we, cattle?

* Why criticize Bibi for not placing much value on the lives of gentile Americans when that is not any of his duties.

Our leaders are supposed to protect America’s interests. They fail to do so.

Bibi’s duties are to protect Israel’s interests. He succeeds in doing so.

In response to your query: Yes, we are cattle!

* The culture German Jews identified with was mostly just their wishful idea of what Germany was about. That reverie ended in the 1930s when the real Germans showed us their idea of what Germany was about.

[Which occurred after Ms. Luxembourg and crew showed Germany what was in store for them.]

The Germans have changed in the meantime, but as we’re seeing, they’ve now latched onto another self-destructive madness.

* It won’t have an effect until Jews living in European nations overwhelmingly support immigration restrictions for said European nations. Having the head of Israel permit Europeans similar rights to Israelis is nice, but so long as their co-ethnics in the European world punch above their weight in promoting open borders, it probably won’t affect that meme you referenced.

* The reality of a future Muslim dominated Europe is more apparent to Israeli leaders than it is to EU leaders.

* Nationalist Jews still depend on Germany. None of the Visegrad countries can build a submarine for example.

* This is why nationalists / alt-right / whatever can be so stupid about Jews. The whole ‘they destroy our nations but preserve their own’ thing assumes a singular THEY. In fact there’s nationalist Israelis, who are quite happy for Europe to keep its identity, and diaspora progressive Jews, who aren’t. They’re not the same people! We can profitably ally with the nationalist Israelis, rather than conspirasising with fucking ellipses about jewish treachery.

* This is great news. There is no way Trump could have survived in office in conflict with both left-wing American Jews, and conservative Israeli Jews. He could have been impeached at any moment. With this kind of support from Israel Trump is perfectly safe. I was unhappy with the very cozy visit with Saudi Arabia and Israel, but now that the bigger picture is (hopefully) becoming clear … yeah, this is great!

* Looks like the Israelis are standing beside us as well, they are even giving our police the benefit of their expertise in counter-insurgency techniques:

Local Law Enforcement Chiefs Return from Elite ADL Training in Israel.

Top U.S. Law Enforcement Officers Travel To Israel For ADL Counter-Terrorism Training

Hmm, I wonder what they are teaching them? Lets peruse the ADL website:

Extremists Declare: Refugees Hastening Europe’s Demise

Fear of Refugees: A Flashback to the Holocaust

Closing the Borders to Refugees: Wrong in the 1930s, and Wrong Today

ADL’s Role in Fighting Anti-Muslim Bigotry

Alas, ’tis unrequited love.

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