* Luke, are you still able to understand that at some level, what Dooovid was saying about “frames” goes for religious truths also — in particular, your happy claim about how your focus on connection with your religious community (and your downplaying of metaphysical truths) has led to your thriving… sort of contradicts the frame offered by Christianity? The contrast is so sharp that I can’t tell if you’re trolling or making a joke, or if you really don’t get it, or remember… “remember, if the world hates you, it hated me first.” Or “I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law…” Or “a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household…” — I understand your frame. I see it, I understand it, I’m willing to grant it to you for the sake of conversation. Knowing that you think in those terms, I wouldn’t continue saying to you, “You should be speaking truth even if it costs you everything,” because I understand that that’s not your operating system… do you not understand that some of us have other operating systems? Or do you understand, and you’re trying to undermine our faith? I honestly can’t tell. To a lot of Christians, the idea that you should focus on happy getting along and minding your own business and avoiding ruffling feathers is really anathema… maybe you’re working out resentment about how your dad’s own persecution for speaking what he thought was truth led in part to your own estrangement from him? And so that makes it wrong to you? I’d be interested to hear you say more about this — am I reading Christianity wrong? Is Christianity wrong? I feel like Doooovid would understand this better than you (lately). Good show as always.
* Doooovid: I agree framing is essentially a spiritual concept. But I took a course on EDX from Delft University in Holland about Framing and public speaking and politics. And President Obama (top student of Alan Dershowitz) who always made sure to frame the topic and set the narrative first before moving forward, which is how Professor Dershowitz at Harvard Law School teaches how to win in the court room, by properly framing the debate, and convincing the jury that your narrative based on the frame you set is the most viable alternative.
Also note Monad’s conversation with Luke where they simply talked past each other. I think Monad was just giving Kant’s and Neitzche’s critique of Jewish thinking, where they thought that the German was more on a search for truth while the Jew had certain defects that caused us to not be able to objectively search for truth. Monad did not quote Kant, but think that was the argument. Interesting that Luke as a convert has adapted the traits of ethnic Jews, says something about nature versus nurture and learned behavior.
Note famous world champion chess player Alexander Alekhine who played for the Nazis and was able to defeat the top Jewish chess players, even wrote a book on Jewish thinking in regards to playing chess, noting how Jews seem to fall into the same lines of faulty thinking, as were easy to defeat, which is in line with Kant and Neitzche. Although famously Rabbi Moses Mendelshon was in the same circles as Kant, and defeated Kant many times in public rhetoric about German Enlightenment.
Thanks everyone – trying to continue the discussion in the chat. People asked about the crayons – I love to draw and am professionally a Civil Engineer and make ‘blue prints’ construction renderings and will use crayons to draw.
Also see people are complaining that I am off topic or boring, sorry, I am basically Luke’s guest scholar, so maybe me and Luke can try to discuss before hand what we will talk about so I can research and just comment on topics that I know a lot about. Luke is the expert on the Alt-Right and brings the latest in commentary of what is happening in the Alt-Right, where my knowledge base is not in the Alt-Right, although I follow and support the non-subversive parts about the Alt-Right.
Obviously my expertise is the JQ, but am a well-rounded educated person who follows world news and politics and reads constantly.
Also check out my youtube for some chess videos, I rarely play on the internet and now function mainly as a volunteer chess coach for kids in Detroit, but still love the game, and promote chess as a way to improve thinking skills and understanding Karma or action-reaction.
* I disagree with Doooovid that the Jewish propensity for bad faith argumentation is due to them being reactive. When I’ve argued, in a measured and civil manner, with Jews, I always felt that they were being defensive and evasive. Which brings me to another point, this sophistic, Alinsky style of engagement is also the mark of every leftist I’ve engaged with. They argue not to arrive at a better understanding, but to win and if they can grind the opponent into the dirt in the process, the win is sweeter. In me this feels like an act of violence and I want to respond physically to such people. Others have told me it affects them similarly. Maybe we can crudely extrapolate that such interactions would, over time, create a conditions for bad blood.
* Doooovid: I said that when a Western Jew, especially one well suited in Western culture who feels like they fit in well is called out as a Jew – we might enter ‘fight or flight’, and that fight will appear as direct attacks on the person asking the JQ on them. You might have a point, I was just explaining that the Jewish reaction to the JQ is just the normal human reaction to any ‘fight or flight’ situation, although Jews have a patterned way we might reaction in these ‘fight or flight’ situations.
Blessings, look forward to discussing this Jewish ‘fight or flight’ response to the JQ.
I am not here to win a debate, but seeking Truth and to serve our mutual Creator, and yes make the world a better place for everyone.
We can talk about Jews, as I am an expert on that subject, and know lots about us, end of the day Jews are just people and suffer all the same downfalls as anyone else, but we have different skill sets and benefits and defects that other nations, which is always a topic of interesting conversation although controversial.
But I think the point of ‘fight or flight’ evoking the more true essence of a person is valid, and that would apply to a European, Black,…, hence the current politics in America where even Europeans are feeling the ‘fight or flight’ that is evoking their true nature, As where as a minority, although successful and wealthy in powerful in America are easier to evoke a ‘fight or flight’ reaction than in most European back ground Americans.
Our most famous Sage Maimonidies in the laws of Messiah that we wait for and pray to come every day! Happy to discuss this most important topic more, but this writing almost 1,000 years ago best sums up the Jewish belief. Maimonidies Laws of Kings – Chapter 10:
If a king will arise from the House of David who diligently contemplates the Torah and observes its mitzvot as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law as David, his ancestor, will compel all of Israel to walk in (the way of the Torah) and rectify the breaches in its observance, and fight the wars of God, we may, with assurance, consider him Mashiach.
If he succeeds in the above, builds the Temple in its place, and gathers the dispersed of Israel, he is definitely the Mashiach.
He will then improve the entire world, motivating all the nations to serve God together, as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: ‘I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.’
If he did not succeed to this degree or was killed, he surely is not the redeemer promised by the Torah. Rather, he should be considered as all the other proper and complete kings of the Davidic dynasty who died. God caused him to arise only to test the many, as Daniel 11:35 states: ‘And some of the wise men will stumble, to try them, to refine, and to clarify until the appointed time, because the set time is in the future.’
Jesus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Mashiach and was executed by the court was also alluded to in Daniel’s prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: ‘The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble.’
Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.
Nevertheless, the intent of the Creator of the world is not within the power of man to comprehend, for His ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts, our thoughts. Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach’s coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: ‘I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.’
How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled with the mention of Mashiach, Torah, and mitzvot. These matters have been spread to the furthermost islands to many stubborn-hearted nations. They discuss these matters and the mitzvot of the Torah, saying: ‘These mitzvot were true, but were already negated in the present age and are not applicable for all time.’
Others say: ‘Implied in the mitzvot are hidden concepts that can not be understood simply. The Mashiach has already come and revealed those hidden truths.’
When the true Messianic king will arise and prove successful, his position becoming exalted and uplifted, they will all return and realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage and their prophets and ancestors caused them to err.