Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History

Yoel Finkelman writes: 0094-0098

On rare occasions, academics manage to cross over and speak to those who live outside the ivory tower, and nobody in the contemporary Modern Orthodox intellectual scene does that better than Marc B. Shapiro. On even rarer occasions, forthcoming academic monographs elicit wide-eyed anticipation on the part of non-academic readers. Shapiro’s new book, Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History, has done just that, garnering hundreds of pre-orders and a barrage of online pre-publication speculation. Shapiro has earned this well-deserved
reputation not only through impressive erudition, but also through a serious investment in teaching and writing for lay audiences, through “well attended” online courses, by leading tours of Jewish Europe, and with continual publication on the well read Seforim blog.

From the Amazon reviews:

* Interesting reading for those who want to know the politics of who controls whom.

* Paul Shaviv writes: I just spent the recent holiday weekend reading this important and fascinating (if somewhat depressing) book from cover to cover. Marc Shapiro has given us another excellent work. With meticulous documentation he shows a series of different examples of how Orthodox rabbinic works have been altered, censored and mutilated to hide what the original authors wrote or thought (or wore – it includes a few examples of doctored photos), in order to conform with later, and, inevitably, narrower opinions. By removing evidence, the effect is to delegitimize and narrow the range of opinions, beliefs, views and behaviors within the Orthodox Jewish world. Two chapters are devoted to the overall treatment of two major Orthodox thinkers – S.R. Hirsch and Rav Kook – at the hands of subsequent editors. As he points out, his examples – which are many – are, however, only a representative selection. He also discusses the Orthodox view of the “function” of history, and the notion of historical or other truth in Jewish tradition. Although this serves as an explanation of the thought-processes behind the revisionist activity, it also strongly suggest that there is an unbridgeable gap between “history” and “Orthodox ‘history'”. Marc Shapiro has the gift of being an excellent, clear and easy-to-read writer. An excellent book for anyone interested in Jewish history and trends and currents in the Orthodox world.

* Having been a reader of Marc Shapiro’s writings for about twenty years, I’ve often been made to wonder about what motivates and animates Jewish thinkers to do and say the things that they do. His current book on Jewish censorship and revisionism places the question of motivation and psychology front and center.

Shapiro is, as always, encyclopedic in the scope of the sources he brings down. His observations on some outlandish forms of Jewish censorship and revisionism are often wry and witty, with minimal personal editorial and without being either cynical or unsympathetic to the subject matter. The one possible slant to which his book lends itself, of which Shapiro himself is aware, is that in accumulating every possible example of Jewish religious censorship and revisionism one could walk away with the impression that there are no Jewish authorities that defend being sincere and transparent, which of course is not the case.

There is a certain charm to Shapiro’s writings, as in how in the midst of a much broader discussion, Shapiro will share an embarrassingly true but conveniently forgotten insight, such as the fact that over hundred years ago the majority of Jews started (and ended) Shabbos later than they do nowadays, a practice that at present is rare and is deemed scandalous.

While modern scholarship would not condone any form of censorship, when reading Shapiro one can nevertheless distinguish between more excusable forms of hiding the truth versus completely inexcusable ones. At the excusable end of the spectrum are: censoring passages from non-Jews that, if revealed, could endanger the Jewish community; hiding awkward revelations about the personal failings or peccadilloes of a religious sage, especially sexual ones; genuinely believing a falsehood, without any ulterior motive and then propagating it; censoring gratuitously abusive language between respected scholars; the altering of Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook’s writings by his handlers, for fear that some of his ideas would alienate his intended readership. In all these cases we can sense the imperfect choices being presented between on the one hand being completely transparent but on the other hand wanting to either exercise common sense or display good taste.

What appears, however, to be altogether inexcusable is the constant theological posturing that goes on in the Haredi world, to give the impression of a form of religious orthodoxy that is consistent throughout all time and space. Examples where historical photos are altered to either make Orthodox women from the past appear to be dressed more modestly than they actually were or to color a skull cap onto a rabbi’s bare head are only a small sampling of it. Much larger and more damning are the chapters devoted to Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch and the aforementioned Rabbi Kook. While Hirsch’s philosophy and the community he advocated were forcibly made to appear more palatable to Haredi sensibilities, Kook, once the darling of the Orthodox world, had been rendered a persona non grata. This persistent practice of disfiguring history by making it more homogenous is absolute cultural vandalism. The censors in these cases have found it expedient to lie and cover up numerous facts, all in order to control the religious experience of the masses, to ensure uniform thought and practice. As Shapiro himself points out, people in power, by lying and hiding the truth, have predetermined how Judaism should have looked historically (evidence to the contrary be damned) and in the process they have chosen to be the judges over the great luminaries that preceded them.

And in no way do the Haredim have a monopoly over this sort of censorship, though they are the most persistent practitioners of it. Shapiro gives examples of censorship in other branches of Judaism. And it’s clear to any reader that rewriting the past is a standard practice in any sort of orthodoxy, whether it be political or ideological in nature, whenever the facts as they are do not conveniently corroborate what people “need” to believe at present.

Shapiro’s last chapter, which deals with the Jewish literature on when it is permissible to lie and to deceive is the most painful to read through. Shapiro frames the discussion in terms of the overarching problem: the Torah is replete with statements to the effect that it is important to be truthful and that lying is evil. Many rabbinical sermons are in fact delivered in which Judaism is couched as an unrelenting search for truth. How then to defend the frequent practice by religious publishers of deceiving their readership? The answers on the whole are of an extremely legal, technical nature, arbitrary in their application and completely inelegant. And even worse than the inorganic loopholes that various religious figures relied upon to allow themselves to be untruthful is a statement by Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler. In line with the thinking of certain secular philosophers, Dessler redefines the truth to be whatever is most expedient, whichever statement most practically achieves a desired outcome, i.e., extracting greater religious observance and devotion from the masses. The intellectual acrobatics Dessler uses to justify being deceptive come off as flippant, not too clever and disingenuous.

The notion that the greatest truth is whatever achieves a desired outcome begs the question: Isn’t there a greater truth to strive for than achieving mass obedience? Especially in an age in which orthodoxies of all sorts are on their way out, what exactly are we sacrificing in order to achieve uniform behavior? People en masse are leaving organized religion, especially Western organized religion –Judaism is being hit especially hard – and are pursuing more experiential/less dogmatic strains of spirituality such as Easter religion. There’s a good reason that Jews as a whole are over-represented among the numbers of Westerners who flock to either trendy new age spiritual movements or to Buddhism and Hinduism. Instead of addressing the spiritual poverty engendered by un-self aware orthodox dogmatism, we’re expending precious mental energy on hosting a beauty pageant of sorts, on upholding appearances of piety. In the end, Orthodox Judaism can end up becoming self selecting – retaining the traditionalists who would have naturally gravitated towards it anyway, while losing all of the sincere seekers who are genuinely curious and trying to understand.

Shapiro had me considering the subject matter from different vantage points. What, for instance, drives people to want to believe something to be true? I remember meeting a religious man a few years back, whose father was among the Jews who was saved during World War II by Sugihara, the courageous Japanese diplomat who defiantly gave out numerous visas to save Jewish lives. With complete conviction, the man related to me how later in life Sugihara converted to Judaism. Of course, nothing of the sort happened and I politely kept quiet. I sensed how the man very much wanted to believe that Sugihara was Jewish, as if a goy altruistically saving thousands of Jewish lives weren’t good enough. As with other urban legends, people find comfort in believing that certain things are true.

Urban legends, for course, are a universal phenomenon, not at all unique to Orthodox Jews, and people tend towards being suggestible. And it is sometimes hard to get at what is really true versus what we wish to be true. With the internet, however, becoming more ubiquitous and especially with the advent of web sites such as Snopes that devote themselves to debunking false legends the likelihood of people continuing to believe a bubbe meise are smaller. The question is whether this trend towards greater transparency will have the same sort of impact in the Haredi world. If so will the censors in Haredi world continue to be able to spin their personal story to their own liking or will they need to adjust their spin for an evermore skeptical public?

And what can we say about the cynical mindset that encourages censorship? In a world that is moving towards greater transparency and towards empowering individuals more and more, censors are elitists who continue to believe that people “can’t handle the truth.” It is possible that there are facts that are too damning and too overwhelming for people to process, but when people are constantly infantilized and lied to, it can become a self fulfilling prophecy by which the public can no longer stand to hear anything remotely threatening to their beliefs.

I highly encourage anyone interested in the subject of Judaism and its relationship to the truth to read Shapiro’s well written book.

From the live Youtube chat:

Privada Machina​Hey Luke

Privada Machina​You don’t get a hard time at all by them? It seems that they would view your White Nationalism as a threat.

Tail of Spence​Which side would you sympathize with in the two Jewish revolts against Rome, in the Titus era and the Hadrian era?

resurrectionjose​Well, that’s what I get for not getting here earlier. 😃 I heard something about the “Christian perspective” and “lying.”

Degenerate Scumbag​Luke, your view of Christianity seems a little simplistic. I don’t think it would be considered sinful to lie under justifiable circumstances that you described. I think maybe your dad was a bit of a fringe character with extreme literalist interpretations that most Christians would disagree with.

Degenerate Scumbag​Luke, you’ve studied a lot of Torah & Talmud. Is there any truth to the idea that 6 million is a number with religious significance predating the (alleged) Holocaust?

resurrectionjose​”I want historical truth.” Don’t we all!?!?!

J. Smith​Zev, it takes a lot of reading from disparate sources for one to come to that conclusion. I understand why Luke still thinks it happened.

J. Smith​For instance, I don’t think he is aware of Arthur Butz’ work. He definitely was not aware of Joel Hayward’s thesis until I pointed it out to him.

J. Smith​Zev, that seems like an exaggeration. Luke always comes across as honestly holding the beliefs he does and he openly discusses the toughest issues.

J. Smith​Is there anyone discussing tougher subjects online in this format?

Degenerate Scumbag​Zev, I’m a revisdionist, but I believe Luke is sincere in his belief. He just needs educating.

J. Smith​I’m aware of the holohoax but I’m also aware there is no one stop source to easily learn this.

resurrectionjose​:::sigh::: Even though I’m in Christian camp *and* identify with the ‘Alt-Right’, this is one of those occasions where I don’t particularly care to see “Holocaust denial” or “Jew-bashing.”

Degenerate Scumbag​@J. Smith Agreed, Luke is brave to even touch the subjects he does.

J. Smith​ressurectionjose, respectfully, that sounds as a groundless rejection of an idea based on your feelings towards it.

resurrectionjose​@J. Smith — Let me put it to you this way: There is a time *and* a place for everything.

J. Smith​Zev, it is not easy to learn the holohoax. I challenge you to recommend one source to learn it all. And i’m aware of the holocaust deprogramming course.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Zev Tyler Yes it’s bullshit, but decades of programming is not easy to overcome.

J. Smith​Zev, you’re in cognitive dissonance. I agree with you, the holohoax did not happen. At all. But you’re not addressing the challenge: there is no one good source to learn this from. Lots of reading…

Thomas Bergman​You don’t have to have gas chambers to have miserably treated Jews who were often plainly murdered

J. Smith​…necessary.

resurrectionjose​@Zev Tyler — Speaking for myself, I’m not here for that shit. Take the ‘JQ’ for instance. I have nooooo problem bringing it up with, say, Jewish friends if need be. But not every friggin’ time!

J. Smith​Thomas, german soldiers who mistreated jews at thte camps were regularly punished and we have documentary evidence for that. What you said is a lie.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Zev Tyler When people are genuinely open to discussion, it doesn’t serve our purposes to say “You believe in the Holohoax you idiot, fuck off.”

resurrectionjose​@Zev Tyler — Oops, sorry. What I said before was meant for J. Smith.

Thomas Bergman​The Einsatzgruppen never massacred anyone?

J. Smith​Thomas Bergman: we can have that conversation but that is not usually what revisionists “deny” when we deny the holocaust. we deny gas cambers and a systematic plan for genocide.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Thomas Bergman The Einsatzgruppen were anti-communist forces. Unsurprisingly, this involved killing a lot of Jews.

Thomas Bergman​I am not categorically opposed to revisionism

J. Smith​Zev was not here to engage – it’s sad.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford – Some of us — like me — know quite a bit about mainstream biblical scholarship.

Thomas Bergman​Do you think there is anything authentically Jewish about Jesus’s response to Jewish priests?

J. Smith​Luke, perhaps the uniqueness of Judaism comes from its self-awareness? If the Talmud is the discussion (and some say the denial) of the Torah then at least this is self-analysis at the religion level

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford Not all Jews were communists, but most communists were Jews. The extent to which Einsatzgruppen targeted Jews as Jews, rather than communists who happened to be mainly Jews, is debateable.

resurrectionjose​@Thomas Bergman — Which particular response do you have in mind?

Thomas Bergman​Were the Temple priests doing anything in contradiction of authentic Torah tradition?

Ahmad David Rifkin​Leave it to the Rabbim why speak abt such matters with the goyeim

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford can’t post links in here, but the Soviet leaders were more Jewish than you think.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — Without having to look things up in the myriad of books I have on Judaism (or that of Jacob Neusner) where there “Judaism(s)” during Jesus’ time too instead of the Second Temple period?

resurrectionjose​@SethCity – You have to subbed to his channel in order to be here. 😃

resurrectionjose​*to be

Diego Arenda​What was the percentage of Jews in the communist party at the leadership and organizational level?

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford – :::slaps face::: I had something else in mind, and got confused in my question.
Diego Arenda​How about the revolutionaries?

Ahmad David Rifkin​You should make a lecture on Saint Baruch Goldschtein and Meyer Kahana and how the Mossad conspired against them assassinated them

Ahmad David Rifkin​The Israeli killed him

Ahmad David Rifkin​Not Arabeim

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford From what you admit of 25% in key positions, that would still mean that Einsatzgruppen would kill lots of Jews.

Ahmad David Rifkin​Look what happened to Zeev Kahana

Ahmad David Rifkin​And his family

Diego Arenda​Can you explain the exegetical techniques Orthodox Jews use in interpreting the Bible and Talmud? I have read The Chosen and there is a little about it in there, but it’s puzzling to me.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — Here we go … I think what I was trying to get at before is whether there were differences even among the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, et al. and not just a uniform set of beliefs?

resurrectionjose​@Diego Arenda — This might be helpful … Marc Zvi Brettler, Peter Enns, and Daniel J. Harrington ”The Bible and the Believer. How to Read the Bible Critically and Religiously” (2012)

Diego Arenda​thanks RJose

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — I know that. I’m referring to *differences* between each group?

resurrectionjose​@Diego Arenda — Mr. Brettler, the Jewish contributor, goes into some specifics regarding biblical interpretation.

Degenerate Scumbag​​I tried removing h t t p but it still rejected.

resurrectionjose​@Degenerate Scumbag — From my own experience(s) on live streams, the only links that go through successfully with a little fudging around is You Tube ones.

Killer Cross​”666 gazillion”, soap, lamp shades, train cars to fire pits, etc. we know the stories of nonsense. lol

Thomas Bergman​Do you agree with Moldbug that Progressivism is a culmination of Christianity and that it might therefore be a dead-end for Civilization?

Degenerate Scumbag​Anyway, we agree that Jews were definitely over-represented, the question is to what extent. Something for later. My point is just that I believe this can account for Einsatzgruppen killing Jews.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — ::😏:: That’s it? No elaboration beyond “That makes sense to me.”

Degenerate Scumbag​Without it necessarily being a systematic targeting of Jews for being Jewish.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — I wouldn’t have asked if I didn’t want some “meat.” 😃

gjjd​@Degenerate Scumbag try changing the dots to [dot]

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — I gotcha. Even though you’re trying to make things simple, I can fill in the blanks.

Thomas Bergman​That was a very powerful explanation

Killer Cross​As long as there is empath left, when empathy is gone you get a purge form the empathetic for your abuse.

Killer Cross​”The boy who cried wolf.”

resurrectionjose​@Thomas Bergman — Keeping things simple on my end, what Mr. Ford touched upon very briefly is probably something Christian missionaries must learn from day one.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford The thing about in-group vs out-group behaviour in Jews vs Christians rings very true.

Thomas Bergman​Like Huckleberry Finn?

Degenerate Scumbag​But, you realise, from the Christian perspective, this looks like fundamentally dishonourable behaviour? This is taking advantage of the host’s generosity while betraying them.

Degenerate Scumbag​The Christian universalist perspective is based on the idea of fair play. The idea that we will treat you as equals, and you will treat us the same back.

Zed Dez​No, Luke. The more Christian you become, the more empathetic you become to out-groups. And why Hitler nor the Alt-Right were/are fans.

resurrectionjose​@Degenerate Scumbag — I forget the technical term(s) from a missiological perspective, but it’s not really. It’s simply learning someone else’s culture, beliefs, etc.

Ahmad David Rifkin​Hitler was way more better than Jesus

Zed Dez​Sorry, not chatting this eve, I’m knitting! xD

Killer Cross​Hitler and the Alt right are mainly driven by empathy.

Zed Dez​@Ahmad David Rifkin Yep, that’s your opinion, but not mine.

Zed Dez​@Killer Cross Empathy towards who?

Killer Cross​Their people.

Thomas Bergman​My ancestors were Mennonite

Killer Cross​It’s a movement of love for your people.

Zed Dez​As an Catholic then Evangelical I found that stance to be true in both traditions.

Ahmad David Rifkin​The Saviors of the White Race should be like these novel characters Earl Turner and Oscar Hunter

Zed Dez​@Luke Ford I’d agree but as a new trend, i.e., Christian Nationalists.

resurrectionjose​@Degenerate Scumbag — Perhaps an example would be the translation of the Bible (re: the N.T.) and knowing how to translate it into the language and idioms of the people you are evangelizing to.

Zed Dez​Sure, it has been lost and found (in group Christianity, eg Crusades) over the centuries. But, in the US/Canada, not so much.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford Am I hearing you right? Alteration of history is Kosher in Judaism?

Killer Cross​Don’t forget 35,000 Russian tanks were on the German border at the start of WWII. Plus Hitler knew Stalin planned an attack.

Degenerate Scumbag​Wow.

Degenerate Scumbag​You realise this massively supports the revisionist perspective?

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — You mentioned in the previous live stream and earlier on in this one your father obtaining two Ph.D degrees in Christian theology. What specific areas?

Thomas Bergman​That’s true

Ahmad David Rifkin​Hienrich Himmler of the elite SS had a believe that his mission is like the Teitonic Knights to spread Aryan culture among the barbarity of the Slavic race

Thomas Bergman​That’s exactly how Progressive narratives entered the mainstream pedagogy

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — F. F. Bruce, eh? Interesting!

Killer Cross​The Vedas and the Avesta come from Aryan’s. I could see that possible. Aryans did a lot for India.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — It’s neither here nor there but since you mentioned your father doing his second Ph.D with Mr. Bruce. I just checked and I have 8 works by him. Half are biblical commentaries.

Zed Dez​She was not intended to be just his helper or his companion, rather she was intended to be his saviour, his deliverer*.In Hebrew the two words

Zed Dez​that “help meet” are derived from are the words “ezer” and the word ‘k’enegdo”. Thoughts?

Zed Dez​“According to biblical scholar David Freedman, the Hebrew word translated thee into English as “help” is ezer.

Zed Dez​This word is a combination of two roots, one meaning “to rescue”, “to save,” and the other meaning “to be strong.” Just as the roots merged into one word, so did their meanings.

Zed Dez​At first ezer meant either “to save” or “to be strong,” but in time, said Freedman, ezer “ was always interpreted as ‘to help’ a mixture of both nuances.”

Zed Dez​MIRROR is the term.

resurrectionjose​@Zed Dez — I can look it up because I have most my books (i.e., eBooks) on my external hard drives and hooked up to my computer. Is that an article in the ABD by Mr. Freedman?

Zed Dez​No, that’s not where I got it, just a sec, I’ll find the link.

Ahmad David Rifkin​Nachman meu uman

Zed Dez​womeninthescriptures (com) /2010/11/real-meaning-of-term-help-meet.html

Zed Dez​I switched from Catholic to Evangelical so that I could join the Ministry. Becoming a nun held absolutely no interest for me.

Zed Dez​@resurrectionjose Are you looking it up? I’d be grateful if you could find the people behind the thoughts.

resurrectionjose​@Zed Dez — Is that a (feminist) site of “womanist” scholars?

Zed Dez​That’s so sad!

Zed Dez​@resurrectionjose IS it? I don’t usually hang with Feminists…though of late I’ve been considering 1st wave. I’ve lost hope for the Alt right who want to impose White Sharia. I’m so conflicted.

resurrectionjose​@Zed Dez — 1) Looking what up? The website you cited? 2) I’m quite centrist in my biblical viewpoints; however, a number of feminist scholars are just bloody idiots. Sorry. ::🤷::

gjjd​@Zed white sharia is not serious

Zed Dez​Sure, I have no problem with men/men or women/women. Happy to oblidge. But, women need our space and voice too without becoming Feminists or Harpies.

Degenerate Scumbag​The “White Sharia” thing is trolling with a purpose.

Killer Cross​Boudica is a whaman to emulate, not Margret Thatcher Many whaman want to be dictators given power.

Zed Dez​@gjjd Then why do content creators keep ‘coming out’ in agreement?

resurrectionjose​@Zed Rez — That whole ‘White Sharia’ horse crap almost became the straw that broke the camel’s back last year with me. Simply put, I wanted nothing to do with the ‘Alt-Right’.

Degenerate Scumbag​The point is to make women understand how the freedom they have been given, and what they chose to do with it, has weakened our society.

Degenerate Scumbag​The nuclear family has been massively damaged, and the stupidity of it is that it hasn’t made them happy.

gjjd​@Zed many content creators have this attitude that they never disavow other alt-righters, even Neo-Nazis! It is stupid, imo.

resurrectionjose​@Zed Dez — One can kind of say I was kind of fooled by the trolling; however, a number of ‘Alt-Right’ guys were quite serious about it if I’m not mistaken from what I saw in the comment’s sections.

gjjd​@Degenerate I don’t think it is useful to even try to defend dumb crap like white sharia

Zed Dez​What have men being doing over the past 50 years? IMO fvcking their friends daughters, strippers, porno, etc. White Men? Can you answer to that?

Degenerate Scumbag​@gjjd There’s no need to “defend” it, it’s not serious.

Killer Cross​alt right is not religious.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — Exactly. I identify with the ‘Alt-Right’, and readily admit there a bunch of buffoons in the movement.

resurrectionjose​”…there *are* a…”

Zed Dez​I do, I stick with Jared and Greg. Though I’m not sure about a Gay man commenting on Female policies.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Zed Dez It takes two to tango.

Zed Dez​@Degenerate Scumbag Thank you!

Killer Cross​All people can comment on polices for people. Human empathy is a strength.

gjjd​@Luke good point in bringing up Sexual Utopia in power. I would also mention that skepticism of women in the right has a LOT to do with women’s voting behaviors and SJW activism

Degenerate Scumbag​@gjjd Yes! Women’s activism and voting patterns are a big part of what got us in this mess.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — I don’t know the numbers but a rough guess or estimate of religiously-inclined folks in the ‘Alt-Right’ would be 50-65%. It could be 75% but I’m sticking with 65%.

chris podbury​@Zed Dez Dailystormer and Anglin are equally interesting and discuss metaphysical concepts once you get past the aesthetic. The way the stormer highjacks normie media amazing

Killer Cross​No, Christians are just looking for places to stay relevant. But the movement is not a Christian movement.

resurrectionjose​@chris podbury — I agree or else I most probably wouldn’t have bothered “following” him on GAB. 😛

Degenerate Scumbag​@chris podbury Yes. Once you get past the “Gas the Kikes” rhetoric, they are a lot smarter than you think.

gjjd​@chris podbury there is really no excuse for praising Anglin. His site has inspired something like 3 killersw

Zed Dez​Dropped out for a sec to find this: “You know what to expect from me, as you have seen my character of a good wife.

resurrectionjose​@Killer Cross — Relevant my ass! We don’t “need” the ‘Alt-Right’ — BUT — it does jive with a certain outlook many of us Christians have in regards to nationalism.

gjjd​@Luke why are even you praising it? Yes, Anglin has a certain brilliance, and his humor is actually good, but it is harmful to us

Zed Dez​Suppose I tell you now, what I, in my turn, expect, and how you may best please me and make me happy.—Thus then I begin—Let me ever have the sweet consiousness of knowing myself the best beloved

Diego Arenda​If Angelin got rid of the kike and nigger shit, he might start getting some real followers.

Zed Dez​of your heart—I do not always require a lover’s attention—that wou’d be impossible, but let it never appear by your conduct that I am indifferent to you.” Margaret Davenport Coulter to John Coulter

Killer Cross​Even Pagans can be Nationalist.

Zed Dez​@chris podbury I’m thrilled the DS has served you! I just couldn’t take the Hitler stuff, as that lens had nothing to do with my draw to Ethno Nationalism.

resurrectionjose​@Killer Cross — For the sake of a random example, philosophy strictly speaking is not inherently religious. But it did aid Christianity in explicating dogma, doctrine, etc.

Zed Dez​@chris podbury I’m Quebecois, we are already Ethno Nationalists.

Degenerate Scumbag​@Luke Ford There’s a psychological strategy to it. It’s like a bold statement of complete rejection of political correctness. It’s like “Kvetch as much as you want, we dare to say it.”

resurrectionjose​@Killer Cross — “Even Pagans can be Nationalist.” I agree and more power to you folks (e.g., Asatru).

gjjd​I’m sad that we have sidetracked Luke from the content of this show. I really like the shows where he just is able to talk about a topic without going into the alt-right, like his show about 12-steps

Zed Dez​@Killer Cross I take your point on being able to comment on all social issues. But, when I consider that Greg is a Philosopher of a certain brand, and that I know their view of the female and bias.

chris podbury​@Zed Dez I dont think many people are actually esoteric hitlerites or prefer a gov directed economy. Its just the culture jamming aspect. Also I think Uncle Addy only turns off people because they ..

chris podbury​@Zed Dez …dont actually want to address therevisionist claims…..discuss economics etc

resurrectionjose​@Killer Cross — There’s a ‘Pro-White Christian’ site called “Faith & Heritage: Occidental Christianity…” and the contributor, Adam Grey, gives kudos to a Asatru for it’s pro-white stance.


Wild Graf​How does this YouTuber survive w/ only 3 views? Sheklems coming from where??

Wild Graf​LF is an Honest Jew, in my opinion. Skepticism, but no malice here.

Wild Graf​These days, honesty makes Jews look bad!

Jack Angelo​Hello, Mr Ford. What’s your opinion on the Hasidim?

Wild Graf​There are only 15M Ashkenazi Jews. The 50% that are university material only total 7.5 million. The 1/6th with 2SD 130 IQ (professional/GradSchool) are only 2.5M.

Patrick Jensen​What hasidic dynasti are most interesting ?

Bernard Brightson​are hasidic jews jewing the other jews?

Wild Graf​”Jews are smart”, cont’d: By comparison 4.5% of 700M Whites (130 IQ) is 31.5M . Are those 2.5M Smart Ashkenazi’s everywhere @ the same time?

Patrick Jensen​What are your thoughs on the purpose of religious law. Do you think there is a intelligence-promoting aspect of the Talmud?

Wild Graf​I acknowledge Ashkenzi IQ mean is 115. But there are only 15M of them. There are 700M Whites.

Wild Graf​You people simply don’t have the numbers. 15M Ashkenazi’s, vs 700M Whites.

Patrick Jensen​The touching of the mezuzah, what is the deeper purpose of that? Are there som animistic idea behind it?

Wild Graf​Yes. You said it. 3SDs of Whites (99.5%) == 3.5M. There are still more “genius” Whites, simply due to larger #s. Same for 160 IQ. I’ll think about the 40M Ashkenazi #, never heard that before.

Wild Graf​I have a dreadful connection. I’m not giving up on this 😃

Wild Graf​Where does 40M # come from??

Wild Graf​I respect the fact that you seem to be honest.

Wild Graf​Why are you wearing the Kippah? It’s Sunday, not Shabbat.

Wild Graf​OK. Richard Lynn. will look up.

Wild Graf​Talk about “even the best of the Goyim must be killed.”

Wild Graf​”Jewish Intelligence”. OK.

Wild Graf​wacky things like “gas the Kikes?” Of course, we are only “ironic” Nazis!

Wild Graf​. . . context . . . yes.

Wild Graf​Did I frighten everyone off?

Wild Graf​talk about “O U” kosher tax. Goyim pay it whether we like or not.

Patrick Jensen​In what way, in your opinion, are orthodox jews expressing/living decadence – if at all. ? Any degenerate trends ?

Wild Graf​Talk about “eruv”. (Recently a NJ town was in the news because Orthodox jews erected eruv symbols on telephone poles all over town. WTF?

Wild Graf​BTW I got here from Andy Warski’s program, last week.

Bernard Brightson​Do all jews view you Luke as a Jew? Since you were born a christian.

Wild Graf​Internet out of range. I’ll be back! Thanks!

Patrick Jensen​In the ‘superjew’ youtube-series you have a clone, the host’s father. Look it up. You are very similar. You might really be jewish.

Patrick Jensen​YT/v31S2AG91mU?t=1m55s

Bernard Brightson​just search “SUPERJEW — Episode 2” on youtube,

Bernard Brightson​at time 1:50

Bernard Brightson​Have you seen any Jonathan Bowden speeches on youtube?

Bernard Brightson​his speeches are wild

Bernard Brightson​start with – The Real Meaning of Punch and Judy

Bernard Brightson​would lenin be regarded as a jew`?

Patrick Jensen​Do you talk about ontological narratives of the torah and such things in the yeshiva, or are the yeshivas only for Law-study ?

resurrectionjose​I thought I was seeing things earlier when I glanced over at my right and noticed Mr. Ford was live streaming — again??? 😃

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — :::tips hat:: Greetings mate.

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — 🤔 If I didn’t know any better I could swear you’re trying to beat the likes of ‘Red Ice TV’, Millennial Woes, et al. during their marathon live streams back in December! 😃

resurrectionjose​@Luke Ford — I only want to know one thing and one thing only: Should Adam have split the scene, gotten back with Lilith, and told Eve to scram? 😉

About Luke Ford

I've written five books (see My work has been followed by the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and 60 Minutes. I teach Alexander Technique in Beverly Hills (
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