I Interview A Holocaust Denier Outside The Oscars

As I walk around the Kodak theatre Sunday afternoon, I see an old man holding up a sign protesting Hollywood’s recent slew of Holocaust movies.

"That’s a courageous stance," I think. "Handing out literature denying the Holocaust right in the heart of Hollywood on Oscar day. Must interview this bloke."

Zan tells me: "I think [Holocaust movies] are propaganda. They make Jews appear to be the victims when in Palestine they’re the victimizers. And they were in Russia after 1917."

Luke: "How do people react to you?"

Zan: "Nobody’s beaten me up yet."

"I’ve been able to pass out quite a few things, some of them went into the Academy Awards, which is nice. Most people don’t notice. Until a year or two ago, I didn’t know nothing about the Holocaust. It’s a tissue of lies. You have to define what you’re talking about. We don’t have time to go into it."

Luke: "How did you get into this?"

Zan: "I’ve always been an activist of one thing or another. This is just the latest. This is the third rail of conspiracy theories."

Zan gives me some literature. "They don’t have my name on it."

Luke: "I assume you’d get harassed if you did."

Zan: "I’m 82. What can they do?"

Luke: "So what work did you do before you retired?"

Zan: "Listen, I’m paying alimony. I can’t retire."

"Nice to talk to you. I’ve had some nice conversations with some thoughtful people. Most people don’t care about anything aside from [themselves]."

Luke: "Are there any other causes that you are active in?"

Zan: "Nine Eleven truth of course."

A little grey-haired lady (Becky from the Fairfax area) walks up and joins our conversation. "My parents died in the Holocaust," she says.

Luke: "Yeah. So what do you think?"

Lady: "I was born in Germany a year after the Holocaust. My father lost everybody. He was the only one left alive from his family. The people who say it never occurred, were they there when it occurred? Were they in the gas chambers? Did they see people being gassed? I don’t think so."

Zan: "Your father did not see anybody being gassed."

Lady: "My mother was only 18. She was on the train. They made people who could work go on the right. People who couldn’t work that had children, they had to go on the left. They were shipped off to concentration camps and killed.

"My mother worked in a munitions factory. The Russians freed them. She was from Romania. The Russian troops came in and opened up the barracks and said, ‘Girls, you’re free.’ They all just escaped. I forgot the name of the concentration camp where she was."

Luke: "How do you understand people who do what he’s doing?"

Lady: "They have nothing better to do, I guess. They just want to get publicity. Everybody thinks they’re crazy. Nobody believes them.

"I want to thank Steven Spielberg. When I grew up in East LA in a non-Jewish neighborhood, I was afraid to tell people I was Jewish. I was ashamed to tell people that I was born in Germany. I said my parents were just passing through there. When we came here in the early ’50s, nobody ever talked about the Holocaust. I kept asking my parents, ‘Why don’t you tell us about it?’ They wouldn’t talk about it. Because of the movie Schindler’s List, everybody writes books now. Everybody’s making movies. The public was unaware of what was really going on."

Zan: "Can I tell you one thing?"

Lady: "No, you can not even talk to me. Go back to where you came from."

Zan: "This is a closed mind."

Lady: "Anyway, never again."

Zan: "The International Red Cross, they monitored the German concentration camps. They got all the food in there they could."

"This woman is sincere but she doesn’t know. She wouldn’t take my literature. She doesn’t want to see the other side of it."

Josh:  holocaust deniers are clearly anti-semetic, but they do have a point
Josh:  the holocaust industry is sick
Josh:  i, as a jew, am not really that interested in other people’s issues.  black slavery in america happened and i’m sure it sucked, but i couldn’t really care less about it and i’m sick of the media continually rubbing it in our faces
Josh:  so i don’t think we jews should be "educating" the public on the holocaust
Josh:  it’s our event and we shoul deal with it internally.
Josh:  if you notice, it’s only reform and conservative jews who have this sick obsession with the holocaust

Zan emails me back:

Thank you, Luke, for sending me this. I wish you had been more forthright when I asked you what kind of a blog you had. If you mentioned it dealt with Jewish issues I would have taken a different tack with you. Challenged you about your take on the Holocaust. Not too late to do so of course, so let me ask you if you read the flyer and the pamphlet I gave you. If you have done so, did they impress you at all?

I hope you will visit the two sites at the bottom of the flyer. Mark Weber’s ihr.org and Bradley Smith’s codoh.com. They are both in California. You could interview them. They are experts on the subject. Much better informed than myself. You would risk exposing the people you write for (as well as yourself) to the truth about the Holocaust.

Do me two favors, please. Do me the courtesy of putting in your blog the text of two of the signs I was holding. (Will send in a separate email.) To give a better impression of what I was contending. And also refer to me as a Holocaust Revisionist.

I would appreciate letting your "bloggees" read the message I was trying to get across. (Did I just make up a word? "Bloggees" Have you heard it before?) Did I get anything across to YOU across the void that separates Holocaust "Deniers" and Holocaust "Believers?"






Ari Shavit, Haaretz, May 4, 2003: “The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history.”

Kate Winslett: “If you do a film about the Holocaust, you’re guaranteed an Oscar.”


Kate Winslett knew what she was talking about, eh?

PS Dear Luke, I did have this one there too. How would your bloggees like this one, do you think? Zan.

Fred emails:

Before we get to that, I have a pretty good joke.

Friendship Among Women:

A woman didn’t come home one night. The next day she told her husband that she had slept over at a girlfriend’s house. The man called his wife’s 10 best friends. Not one of them knew anything about it.

Friendship Among Men:

A man didn’t come home one night. The next day he told his wife that he had slept over at a buddy’s house. The woman called her husband’s 10 best friends. Eight of them confirmed that he had slept over, and two claimed that he was still there.

Here’s what I find interesting about your new holocaust denial friend:  apparently, he subscribes to a number of delusional beliefs.  He alluded to several delusional beliefs.

I have always found delusions to be fascinating.  I would be interested in knowing:

a) what delusions he subscribes to;
b) the extent to which he is aware that there are very few who share his opinions;
c) the extent to which many would assume he is morally reprehensible;
d) the extent to which he is antisemitic;
e) the "research" in which he engaged to come to the conclusions to which he subscribes;
f) has he ever met a former Auschwicz inmate;
g) has he ever met any concentration camp inmate with a number tattooed on his/her arm;
h) has he ever visited any of the concentration camps;
i) doesn’t he think that would be important in deciding whether or not the holocaust happened;
j) did someone else "convince" him to become a holocaust denier, or did he come up with this idea on his own;
k) what did he look at or analyze when deciding to become a holocaust denier;
l) are any of his family members holocaust deniers;
m) has he ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness;
n) any family members diagnosed with a psychiatric illness;
o) does he feel that it is necessary or important for him to try to convince others that he is right?  if so, why;
p) are his politics otherwise extreme or off the wall;
q) when he was in high school, was he a loner?  was he popular?  athletic? artistic? a good student?  a bad student?  a pot head?
r) is the holocaust a myth propagated by a vast conspiracy?
s) who is in this conspiracy?
t) what other conspiracies are there that are propagating myths?  what are the myths that are being propogated?
u) what is his religious affiliation?  is that the religion in which he was raised, or did he convert?
v) does he subscribe to any particular theory of racial superiority or inferiority?
x) are there space aliens;
y) who was responsible for 9/11, and how does he know;
z) has his system of beliefs ever interfered with his ability to run his life, hold normal employment, relationships, etc.
aa) what sort of relationship history has he had?  spouse? gf?
bb) how have these people reacted to his belief system?  did they share his belief system?
cc) does he exhibit any obsessional behavior vis-a-vis these ideas?
dd) does he believe he has made his own life one bit better by trying to "spread the word"?  does he believe he has made the world one bit better by trying to "spread the word"?
ee) does holocaust denial serve any emotional purpose for him?
ff) does he have any particular inferiority complex that he is trying to combat by spending his time denying the holocaust;
gg) does he get the impression that family or friends consider him an embarassment?
hh) does he have some grudge, or does he think that life has shortchanged him in a significant way?  who?  why?
ii) Suppose there really is a big conspiracy that spreads stories about 9/11 and the holocaust.  would he like to meet the person who runs the conspiracy?  what would he say to that person?  what would he ask that person?
jj) does he know who that person is?
kk) how does the conspiracy work?  who is involved? where do they meet?  how often? 
ll) does he get together with others in the conspiracy community to discuss their world view?  what sort of folks are in this community?  Do they tend to be male? female? loners? college educated? married? racist? Do they have other eccentric ideas?
mm) does he enjoy holding his holocaust denial views?  does it give him nachas?
nn) if you could prove to him that he were wrong, would he prefer to know the truth, or would he prefer to be left in his current state?
oo) what planet is he from?
pp) who has he voted for in the past?

This guy is a veritable font of interesting info.  If you really want a laugh, go to a novelty store, and make up a phony badge and ID card, identifying you as an official member of the Federal Thought Police, Special Agent Luke Ford.  Explain that the Federal Thought Police are a secret unit within the Truth Maintenance Division of the Justice Department (also a secret government group), and you would like a list of names of other people in the conspiracy community.  If you decide to do this, let me know–I’d like to come down to LA to take pictures when you do this.  Make sure you are wearing your sun glasses and have a cigarette hanging out of your mouth when you do it.  It might also be worthwhile leasing a black sedan with dark tinted windows when you do this. 

Here’s an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry on Jewish historian Deborah Lipstadt who’s written extensively on Holocaust denial:

In February 2007, Lipstadt used the neologism "soft-core denial" at the Zionist Federation’s annual fundraising dinner in London. Referring to groups such as the Muslim Council of Britain, reportedly she stated: "’When groups of people refuse to commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day unless equal time is given to anti-Muslim prejudice, this is soft-core denial.’"[4] According to Paul, "She received huge applause when she asked how former US President Jimmy Carter could omit the years 1939-1947 from a chronology in his book"; referring to his recently-published and controversial book Palestine Peace Not Apartheid, she said: "’When a former president of the United States writes a book on the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and writes a chronology at the beginning of the book in order to help them understand the emergence of the situation and in that chronology lists nothing of importance between 1939 and 1947, that is soft-core denial.’"[4]

Along the same lines, Lipstadt has criticized the German philosopher and historian Ernst Nolte for engaging in what she calls “soft-core denial” of the Holocaust, and has argued that Nolte practises an even more dangerous form of negationism than the Holocaust-deniers. Speaking of Nolte in a 2003 interview, Lipstadt stated:

"Historians such as the German Ernst Nolte are, in some ways, even more dangerous than the deniers. Nolte is an anti-Semite of the first order, who attempts to rehabilitate Hitler by saying that he was no worse than Stalin; but he is careful not to deny the Holocaust. Holocaust-deniers make Nolte’s life more comfortable. They have, with their radical argumentation, pulled the center a little more to their side. Consequently, a less radical extremist, such as Nolte, finds himself closer to the middle ground, which makes him more dangerous" [5]



From my live cam chat:

palestine4ever:  Hello Luke
palestine4ever:  I have much enjoyed the bones you’ve been throwing me
palestine4ever:  The interview with the Holocaust Denier, the Jew talking about the Holocaust Industry
palestine4ever:  I feel like you’re doing that just for me, my lil corner in the Luke Ford Brand
palestine4ever:  Here’s one thing tho
palestine4ever:  Nazis and rednecks are about the only two people on the planet you can call "a good peckerwood" and they’ll take it as a compliment
palestine4ever:  I have to admit that your tri-religionism is starting to get me confused
palestine4ever:  I don’t think I’ll ever give up trying to get you out of the Jew thing
palestine4ever:  but Yoga and Alexander technique are clearly weakening the hold the the people of the devil seedline have over you
Josh:  lukey baby, do you mormonism is a cult
Josh:  don’t all great religions begin sorta cultish?
Josh:  government sanctioned religions wouldn’t be cultish
palestine4ever:  The Cult of the Supreme Being had the word "cult" in it =)
Josh:  for example, the religion of the aztecs and mayans in mesoamerica were essentially created by the establishment, no?
Josh:  there were no charismatic progressive leaders
Josh:  like abraham, jesus, mohammed, or joseph smith
palestine4ever:  Pope, leader of the Pueblo Uprising, was a holy man but we know of him only by the Spaniards he defeated
palestine4ever:  Hiawatha was a real person, most believe, but the stories became distorted into unrecognizable supernatural legends via oral transmission
Josh:  emma, what draws you to luke’s site?
Emma:  The fun, laughter and entertainment.
Josh:  can’t you find that with your friends
Josh:  why strangers
Josh:  why a chunky jewish convert
Josh:  i know why i come
Emma:  I’m drawn to beards.
Emma:  A magnetic thing.
palestine4ever:  Well there are beards, which are fine
palestine4ever:  Then there’s that dead opposum that got lodged in Lukey’s grill
palestine4ever:  He’s like a pre-arrest Radovan Karadzic at this point
Josh:  i’m a modern orthodox jew from new york who likes to read up on what’s going on in the jewish world
palestine4ever:  I’m not sure who said it but, "free a man and he seeks a golden cage"
palestine4ever:  except Luke, who seeks a cage with bars made of matzoh
Josh:  i’m just curious why a non-jewish young girl from ireland is interested in what luke has to say
palestine4ever:  You have a rather aggressive manner, Josh
Josh:  like why does luke spend so much time in front of his comp if it doesn’t give him much of a living
YourMoralLeader:  my mission

palestine4ever:  He’d be happier in Hindooism
palestine4ever:  they have crazy holy men too
Emma:  All religions have crazy holy men.
palestine4ever:  and frankly they’ll take you, the Jews never will
palestine4ever:  You know what he wants?
palestine4ever:  A stoop.
palestine4ever:  A stoop he can sit on, like the stoops in New York
palestine4ever:  and a community that asks him advice on their foibles
palestine4ever:  The intellect reduced to disputes over kosher grocery bills

About Luke Ford

I've written five books (see Amazon.com). My work has been covered in the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and on 60 Minutes. I teach Alexander Technique in Beverly Hills (Alexander90210.com).
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