I’ve always wished the goyim a “Merry Christmas” because that’s just the kind of guy that I am — always full of good cheer and bonhomie.
Today, I was in shul and I was about to wish the Mexicans cleaning up a very “Merry Christmas” but I stopped because it did not feel right. By wishing them a “Merry Christmas”, I was implying that there was some religious truth to what they were celebrating.
So I’ve started asking Orthodox rabbis if it is permitted to wish a goy a “Merry Christmas”.
Traditional Orthodox rabbis say no. It is not permitted.
Some of the more modern Orthodox rabbis say it might be permitted. “Probably permitted,” says one. “It also depends on the person. Believing Christians that feel it is an important religious festival would be more problematic, but people that view it as a day off and fun presents, it should not be a problem.”
An Orthodox rabbi tells me: “Happy holidays is much better. I don’t like the Christ part of Christmas.”
I’d like to get a cheter from a major rav permitting me to say “Merry Christmas!” Until then, let me just wish one and all a happy holidays, including you baby Jesus.
An Orthodox friend says: “I wish all the goyim a “Merry Christmas,” sincerely and enthusiastically. And if anyone doesn’t like saying the “Christ” part of Christmas, then why do they refer to “Judeo-Christian” ethics, or call them “Christians???” Ever hear anyone call ’em “Xtians?” Not me!”
Mark says: “Sometimes it seems like you just sit around making up provocative things about Orthodox Judaism.”
Greg Leake emails:
Hi Luke,
We’re doing great in the religious world, are we not? Jews against Christians, Christians against Jews. Catholics against Protestants, Protestants against Catholics. Islam against Christians and Jews, Christians and Jews against Islam (fortunately).
When it comes to religion we’re really knocking it out of the park, aren’t we?
One of the unfortunate by-products of this Orthodox view is that Orthodox apparently are in theological sympathy with liberals. We’re constantly having fights with the secular domain in education and commercial life over Christmas. They want to call it a Winter Festival. Traditional Americans (often irrespective of their religious orientation) prefer to continue to call the season Christmas. This is the first time I have discovered that the Orthodox community stands against American conservatism on this flashpoint issue. One of the few things I have appreciated about the Orthodox community is our agreement on conservative values. it seems to me that Dennis Prager is correct, and there should be a genuine, if casual, acknowledgment of Christmas and Hannukah.
In my neighborhood Orthodox Jews go as far as they can in the direction of acting like non-Orthodox people simply do not exist. I said ‘Happy Hannukah’ in the supermarket the other day, and they looked me up and down with a paranoid, quick appraisal and reached for the shibboleth “Happy Holidays”.
(Actually, i was hoping for a ‘Merry Christmas in exchange for my Happy Hannukah… hands across the water.)
Since becoming familiar with some elements of Orthodox Judaism, my appreciation for Jesus has increased. If for no other reason, he came along and freed my ancestors from the necessity of being bound to all of these traditional obligations. As someone whose family came to the US during the time of Plymouth Rock, naturally freedom is high on my personal agenda. And I am happy that I do not have to punch in with ecclesiastical authority about every bite I take or every girl I dated or every religious obligation. I’m very fond of the Catholic Church but if Protestantism had not freed us from the Catholic disposition, the United States would not exist as we know it. (And that we are fighting to get back.)
Luke, and I’ll mention to Rabbs that although your family was not persecuted by the Nazis, there is a good chance that some of your ancestors lived in the shadow of the Inquisition. If Torquemada got hold of some of our people, they might as well have been persecuted by the Nazis.
You know, Rabbs has mentioned that Jews tried to integrate themselves in Germany and did it not forestall the horrors of the holocaust. However, in the United States Reform and Conservatism are robust, and as far as I can tell, this has not hurt them in any way from the point of American secular society. I’ve come to believe that a portion of frum Judaism is as much about trying to retain an identity as it is specifically about G-d. As someone with Cherokee blood, I am not completely unmindful of the desirability of tryhing to maintain a unique culture. But the price can be pretty high.
Luke, my view is if ever Conservative Judaism becomes conservative politically, you might consider jumping ship. Furthermore, it would give you a better shot with Tamara and that is not something a heterosexual can dismiss lightly.
(Mark, actually you are correct: Luke is an online provocateur. It’s part of his gift. But you know in all walks of life we need guys to break a few windows and let in a little air.)
JEFF EMAILS: He’s right on several points. Emile Fackenheim makes a similar point as well about the attempts of the charedi world to blame “secular” and “assimilated” Jews for the Shoah. Their (more assimilated Jews in Germany and Austria) survival rate was much higher overall, and they successfully fled the country for the most part (kindertransport, etc). And many were hidden even in Berlin by their neighbors, whereas R. Elchonon Wasserman and similar Rabbanim told their disciples and students to stay. So if Gd was punishing the secular/zionist/reform/whomever, the numbers don’t work.
Also, it is remarkable that people are quoting this statement of yours about Merry Christmas as some kind of actual truth. Obviously, there are good reasons for Jews of Eastern Europe to not look at Christmas as a day of rejoicing, given how much Jewish blood was routinely spilled as part of the festivities in those countries (though more likely mostly the Jan 6 version of it), but anyone with sense recognizes that this world we are in now is a different one altogether. Oddly, many Russian Jews, even more educated ones, have trees, even in Israel, and they claim that its a sign of solidarity with the anti-communist groups (as the communists, who killed their share of Jews, banned Christmas trees, etc.)
The world is a complicated place, and up until recently, Orthodox Judaism was a religion of practice, not dogma. I for one am not convinced that the current changes, mostly picked up from the Evangelical world, are for the good.
RABBI RABBS EMAILS: Greg, you mentioned my name so I will respond. First, I want you to know that there are Torah Jews that do wish Merry Christmas to non-Jews, and yes, it is consistent with conservative values. Here is a fine article written by a frum rabbi who encourages all Jews to wish Merry Christmas to our Gentile friends.
And, if you wished me happy Chanukah, then I would be honored to reach across the water by wishing you a Merry Christmas.
Next, you mentioned the holocaust. Jeff added, “So if Gd was punishing the secular/zionist/reform/whomever, the numbers don’t work.”
The numbers are irrelevant, as it says in Mechilta, Shmos 12:22, when the destroyer is let loose, it does not discriminate between the righteous and the transgressors.
Thus, even if 99% of the frum world were killed while 99% of the frei (secular) world were saved, that would not contradict what our Torah leaders have said as to what caused the Holocaust.
JEFF EMAILS: When R. Hutner wrote his article in the 50s making this claim about the Shoah, there was an uproar and a flurry of dissenting articles. One of my roshei yeshiva from Mir said that it was the arrogance of the yeshiva world that brought about the Shoah, and he remained a prominent rosh yeshiva in Jerusalem. Frumkeit was determined by action and study. Now it is dogma. So the way to be considered religious and an authority is to say things like “Daas Torah” and “I believe in the Gedolim.”
Now, of course, one of the Gedolim also said that the Shoah was the tikkun for sinners of previous generations who needed to die by seraifah. So which is it? R. Zadok Hacohen famously argued that catastrophes were brought upon the Jewish people as a result of shfichas zera l’batala. Nowadays, I suppose, one doesn’t need to think, learn, act, just say, ani maamin b’ artscroll u’b’gedoylim.
Funny, in Israel, Christmas is not really a subject of discussion, many religious Israelis go down to the Old City to see what the Christians are doing much like one would go see a Native American ceremony, but generally it wasn’t viewed as a threat or anything (other than by American olim). However, New Year’s Eve, or Silvester, as its known there, retaining the German name of the day, is a prime target for Rabbis at yeshivas to attack, the secular hedonism of “parties” based on an early semi-mythologized Pope’s Feiertag…
RABBI RABBS EMAILS: Jeff, there is plenty of room within Torah for many reasons behind events and all of them can be true. Any newbie that spent even six months in yeshivah knows that there can be dozens of kosher explanations behind something that G-d did, and we treat all of them as true.
So, a dozen different Gedolim might attribute different reasons behind the holocaust, and their doing so doesn’t automatically mean that one of them is wrong. They could all be correct.
But, I’m sure you know better, as I clearly don’t think and learn.
