The nominal subject of Tractate Avoda Zara is idol worship, one of the worst sins in Judaism. But as Daf Yomi readers complete our third week of studying this tractate, it is becoming clear that the real concerns of the rabbis are much broader than idolatry. In effect, they are aiming to regulate all of Jews’ relationships with non-Jews. Nowhere, perhaps, is the gulf between the Talmudic worldview and the experience of modern American Jews more evident than here. American Jews live in a world that, while certainly not free of anti-Semitism, is marked by a historically unprecedented openness and trust between Jews and non-Jews. After all, this is a country where President Barack Obama, a Christian, hosted an annual Passover Seder in the White House…
Such stories tend to suggest that the safest course for Jews was to avoid gentiles altogether, and Tractate Avoda Zara clearly uses idol worship as an excuse to separate the Jews from the pagan world that surrounded them. It is not just heresy the rabbis want to stamp out—indeed, actual idol worship seems to be the least of their worries—but excessive intimacy of any kind. We saw earlier that Jews could not do business with gentiles near their festival days, nor sell them items that might be used in pagan rituals. The mishna in Avoda Zara 14b goes further: a Jew should not sell gentiles large livestock because they will be used to violate the Shabbat prohibition on labor.
More troublingly, Jews should not leave small animals alone with gentiles, or entrust their sheep to gentile shepherds, because they are likely to use them to commit bestiality—a law that speaks volumes about the rabbis’ estimation of pagan morals. In addition, a Jew should not entrust his child to a gentile teacher “to teach him to read books or to teach him a craft.” It is not entirely clear whether this prohibition, too, stems from sexual fears, or whether it has more to do with the chance that the teacher will lead the child into apostasy. Broadly speaking, “one may not seclude oneself with gentiles,” since the assumption is that they will try to do a Jew harm.
Other prohibitions are meant to discourage social intercourse with gentiles. Jews may not go to places of amusement, such as circuses, theaters, and stadiums, for two reasons: not only are pagan sacrifices performed there, but they are what the Bible calls “the seat of the scornful,” homes of levity and frivolity. Any time spent there is time lost to Torah study. Moreover, Jews should not praise gentiles, especially women; according to Rav, “it is prohibited for a person to say: How beautiful is this gentile woman!”
From the live Youtube chat:
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — No. I’m a Christian and within the Lutheran tradition.
Privada MachinaInteresting thanks
Privada MachinaOk thought so
Yehoishophot Oliverclarify that all rabbinic rulings are based on precedents and earlier sources
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — Had you guessing there for awhile, eh? 😃
Privada MachinaMartin Luther was pretty hardcore. I just read his book last week
Yehoishophot Olivernot just arbitrary judgment calls
Privada Machinalol indeed
b bOur brain is made up of Positive, Neutral, Negative energy and that makes us also God and Perfect too but the Bible that is made by the government wants to control us by stopping us from using both
resurrectionjose I can’t stand Jews. True or false? 😉
b bsides and all parts of our brain
Privada MachinaI actually figured that was why Jews talked shit about Jesus. It sound slike it’s back and forth
Privada MachinaJesus was the son of a Roamn soldier, Panthera
Privada Machinathink thats one
b bWhen you believe that God is the only one capable of anything what happens is you put a negative and impossible mindset in your brain that stops and slows down your brain on a quantum level from
b bexpanding and having out of the box thinking as that is related to Perfect thinking and being Perfect
Privada Machina@resurrectionjose not sure
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — Last week I smacked down some dipstick here on You Tube who thought Lutherans worldwide during the 500th anniversary of the Reformation were full of shit.
NyandUsaPoliticsthis guy is a theologist, hardcore theologist, more than religious
Yehoishophot OliverJesus was a false prophet, pretty simple
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — I like that analogy of “gang warfare” and will probably use it from here on end. 😃
Yehoishophot Oliverrabbis only have as much authority as the ppl grant them
Privada MachinaOh I’m not Christian myself, but I have studied a lot of theology before. Both Jews and Christians I’m familair with
resurrectionjose@Yehoishopot Oliver — Jesus was God’s messiah (re: God resurrecting him from the dead is proof of that). Nice try though.
b bRead all my earlier comments and try to debate my thesis and research
Ulex GordDo you believe your messiah will only come when christianity is destroyed?
Yehoishophot Oliverrabbis don’t issue many rulings today that they would have in previous era because they know ppl wouldn’t listen
Yehoishophot Oliverespecially due to enlightenment
Yehoishophot Oliverweakening all religious authority
NyandUsaPoliticsI’m a Catholic the most religious group in the world
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — Hey, you might see a bit of the Jets vs. Sharks in this ‘Live Chat’ today. 😉
Privada MachinaOk so the Rabbi is here now, can you ask them my questions I had yesterday. I’m sincerely wanting to know how that stuff is justified. What deep answers could be found in sleeping with a 3 year old.
Yehoishophot Oliveramida prayer has many prayers for moshiach
Yehoishophot Oliver3 times daily
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — Don’t lump us all that mix. A number of us in the Christian camp aren’t exactly thinking the Jews are sitting around waiting for their messiah.
NyandUsaPoliticshail Jesus hail trump hail our people hail jews
resurrectionjose”…all *in* that mix.”
Man Faces WorldThe Sulchan Aruch in many litvak communities has been replaced with the Mishnah Berura
NyandUsaPoliticsgo to school with a nun as a teacher and see how it is
Ulex Gorddo you believe the goyim will be slaves of the jews one day
resurrectionjose@NyandUsaPolitics — I like that. I usually “shit-post” within Alt-Right live streams with ‘Hail Trump … Hail Our People … Hail Victory!’ :::raises mug with German beer:::
NyandUsaPoliticsu go to church Wednesday and Sunday some go every day, they pray more than muslims
Privada MachinaThe Pharisees look to be pretty excited about this 3rd temple. Why are they getting prepared even when the place isn’t in Jewish control. I looked into that a few weeks ago.
Yehoishophot Oliverit is discussing technical legal perspective of definition of a virgin
Man Faces WorldUlex that isnt what the Talmud says
Yehoishophot Oliverright, great example
Ulex Gordoh its not? lol
Yehoishophot Olivervirginity is a legal concept in Judaism
J. SmithLuke, the Talmud has some exaggerated jewish genocides – one of them mentions 40 billions jews died.
NyandUsaPoliticsJews can’t compete with Chinese if whites lose their power, because they are not pathologically altruistic, and gain power through brutal economic trade policies
Yehoishophot Olivermishnah brurah only covers orach chayim and not other 3 portions
Alternative ShakespeareLuke, on the topic of Messiah’s post-Jesus. I understand that there have been a number of Rabbi’s in Eastern Europe who some Jews have considered or thought “Messiahs.”
Alternative ShakespeareDo you have an opinion on some of those cases? I believe in the case of Chabad?
Yehoishophot Oliveranyway, MB is a commentary on SA
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — Gene Simmons of KISS sure does. ;0
Ulex Gorddoes it say this in the talmud?
Privada MachinaWhy do Jews use that head thing strapped to their forehead. I personally think Jews are tapping into the Kundalini. Same concept imo
Alternative ShakespeareMenachem Mendel Schneerson, is an example.
Ulex Gordwe’re talking talmud
Privada MachinaWhy is there no attacks on Trump during Sabbath lol
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — :::LOL::: I’m surprised I never thought of that one! 😃
truebelieverWhat about Sanhedrin 55b-55a about sex with a child under 8 or 9 not being pederasty etc?
Yehoishophot Oliverlisten, Torah says that yes, gentiles will serve Jews in the messianic era but that is on account of the recogntion of the spiritual greatness of Jews
Yehoishophot Oliverjust as it would be an honor for any average person to serve a prince
Privada MachinaI saw that Jews are practicing sacrificing for the thris temple even
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — Short of asking you how old you are … check out a song called “Kundalini Express” by a band called Love and Rockets.
Privada MachinaI haven’t heard that yet, I’ll check it out
Ahmad David RifkinHi there
Zed DezChristians (Evangelicals do so) believe that they are to be living sacrifices who pray constantly in the Spirit. Ephesians 6:18, Romans 12:1
Ulex GordWhy are so many jews sexual predators
resurrectionjose@Yehoishophot Oliver — You Jews have a two-fold problem with that thesis: 1) Gentiles would sooner kill themselves before serving Jews, and 2) You better kill us off first before you do it you!
Ulex Gordwhy did you kill so many children and drain their blood?
Ahmad David RifkinYou are a tzadik
resurrectionjose”…before *we* do it you!”
resurrectionjoseCorrection again: “…before *we* do it *to* you!”
Patrick JensenI have a fantasy about how I would religiously consecrate new land fields, Is there any such examples in the Talmudic law ?
Ulex Gordsacrificing children
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — I’m getting a bit closer to why you converted over to Orthodox Judaism, but for what it’s worth I don’t blame you whatsoever in splitting the Seventh-Day Adventist scene, so to speak.
Yehoishophot OliverRJ obviously we believe that when the messiah comes ppl’s views will change on the JQ
Ulex Gordjacking off into potted plants is my passion aswell
Yehoishophot Oliveras all will acknowledge his holiness
Ulex Gordi can understand why they like to do this
sho shanaI’ve met a couple unholy ones sadly
Privada MachinaSephardic Jews are thought of as 2nd rate by the Khzars correct?
Ahmad David RifkinCause the kids were taken by nomadic bandits but they wouldn’t kidnap a child if she is married to secure their children they marry them at early age in olden times
Privada MachinaAre Orthodox mostly Sephardic?
Ulex Gordanders brevik was very passionate too
resurrectionjose@Yehoishophot Oliver — In regards to the ‘JQ’ which you brought up very briefly, elaborate a bit more on that.
NyandUsaPoliticsare either Amish and omish Jews? one of them is Christians but is one of those traditional groups who reject all modern technology Jews?And why do Jews embrace financial engineering and the modern
Privada MachinaHere’s the problem for non religious ppl. Between Jews, Christians, and Muslims they’re going to get us all killed with their egotistical belief that they are all the Cog favorites
NyandUsaPoliticssector and financial markets more than. other religions? do Jews just like the modern sector in economics more for power or what? there
sho shanaI admire the Amish
Yehoishophot OliverI looked up talmud sanhedrin 55a–it’s not saying pederasty is permitted; it is discussing when one is liable for the death penalty for sexual sins
Yehoishophot Oliverfrom which age
J. SmithWhat were Jews doing before 1881 that they did not care about speaking their own language?
NyandUsaPoliticsIslam and Christianity has better rules against usury,
Patrick JensenAre mathematics considered goyisch, like sport is in a lot of hasidic communities.
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — Interesting on what you just said about Sephardic Jews. I made a comment within the ‘Live Chat’ on that ROOSH/VENTI debate, and called out Roosh as looked like a stinkin’ Sephardic Jew.
Ulex Gorddoes it not say in the talmud that in the end of days muslims will mix with Europeans?
Zed DezOff Topic: Thought you’d be interested in this: The Cold Thermogenesis Protocol jackkruse (com) /the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/
Travis HundChristianity is Middle Eastern lol. Norse paganism would be more acclimated to white nationalism
Ahmad David RifkinChristians often pimp their daughters and bugger bois cause the flesh of swine makes them nasty
Ulex Gordoh god we have a pagan here
TriviumLuke do you know who Brother Nathanael, on YouTube is? If you do know who he is, What do you think of him? He is the Opposite of you…He was Jewish and became Orthodox Christian.
Privada MachinaI sense a little tension between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews. Perhaps this is a sore spot to be exploited
Yehoishophot Oliver”there is no suffering without sin”
Travis HundPolytheism makes more sense than monotheism anyways.
sho shanaAhmad David Rifkin.
Zed Dez@Travis Hund Christianity stopped being Middle Eastern 1700 years ago.
iippo@Luke Ford My country has 1 Rabbi that came from Israel & he spends his time promoting mass immigration & migrant acceptance. Do you want him?
resurrectionjose@Travis Hund — Perhaps so, but I’m not fully convinced that pagan gods (and goddesses) are worth spit (cf. Psalm 82).
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver: shalom Rabbi. what do you think of the Neturei Karta and relatedly, of their exposure of zionists and their complicity in ww2?
Zed Dez@Yehoishophot Oliver Suffering being essential for?
sho shanaChristians pimp their daughters please
Yehoishophot OliverLOL JS there arent enough characters in texts to answer
Travis Hund@Zed Dez that’s like saying Africans stopped being African once they were in America
resurrectionjose Needs to break away for a moment or two to take care of some dipstick traditionalist Roman Catholic. Be right back.
Yehoishophot Olivernut there are many valid critiques of zionism
NyandUsaPoliticsthey banned Christians from usury in Europe so permitted only Jews to do it at one point, how do the evolve to having most influence in January to controlling the federal reserve
Privada MachinaAll suffering is sin? What do you mean/
Zed Dez@Travis Hund These are ideas, not DNA.
Yehoishophot Oliverand I am antizionist myself
Yehoishophot Oliversuffering purifies man from sin
Travis HundIt so funny when fellow white nationalist try to endorse Chrisitanity (a Middle Eastern ideology) and disavow Pagansim (a European ideology)
Privada MachinaOh I see, yes I agree
Zed Dez@Travis Hund We DNA’d the heck out of Christianity and made it ours.
Yehoishophot Oliverthat’s what the censor wrote to prevent pogroms and blood libels
Travis HundIdeas are formed through the mind, each minds is different based on DNA, Chrisanity is Middle Eastern.
NyandUsaPoliticsTravis whites are from the middle East before they were in Europe 1000s of years ago and all over the world a million years ago
Zed Dez@Travis Hund There’s not enough of it in existance to really know it. Only Larpers are left. If I though otherwise I would give it more consideration considering I’m a Celt.
Yehoishophot Oliverdietary laws are to prevent one from marrying off one’s daughter to one’s non-Jewish buddies
Yehoishophot Oliverson or vice versa
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver: Rabbi, thank you. What do you think of the writings of Solzhenitsyn, namely 200 years together and/orthe gulag archipelago? do you consider him fair in portraying the jews?
Travis HundThe West fell when Rome fell you fools, when Nordic Paganism was taken over by Middle Eastern ideologies of Judaism, Chrisitanity and Islam. (Which is all the same Abrahamic Religion)
NyandUsaPoliticsIraq and Egypt was Christians and it was white in the bc times, north africa was white before and during rome
Privada MachinaSome blood libels are likely true. I think perhaps the Khazars you let convert around 965 are causing you guys stress.
Travis HundJudaism, Chrisitanity and Islam are one Abrahamic Middle Eastern religion.
iippoBut they can put up a giant menorah on the white house lawn.
Yehoishophot OliverJS I heard about his books but haven’t read them
Yehoishophot Oliverbut secular communists went off the deep end and became quite brutal
NyandUsaPoliticsBenjamin nettenyaho says merry Christmas to americans always
Yehoishophot Oliverthey were brutal to religious Jews
Travis HundWhy are you all even wasting your time with Judaism, Chrisitanity and Islam (The Abrahamic Middle Eastern Religion) when there’s a beautiful Nordic Pagan history and culture?
Yehoishophot Oliverso certainly to nonJews
Privada Machina@J. Smith Have you read ‘200 Years Together’? I have and it’s very balanced imo. Any Jew that thinks they are guilt free isn’;t worth the troubl etalking to
Trivium@ Privada Machina I think that is true about the Khazars.
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver: I recommend you do read 200 years together. He documents the religious jews fighting against the powerful communist jews and the goyim getting caught in the middle. Informative
Yehoishophot Oliversages were not intending to insult but they were genuinely afraid of molestation and rape
Yehoishophot Oliverty I intend to
J. SmithPrivada Machina: I am still working my way through it.
Privada MachinaYeah hey, it seems obvious that these Ashenazis are troiuble
Yehoishophot OliverI am very interested in JQ issue
Privada MachinaNice @J. Smith Its a heavy read for sure, but worth it
Travis HundJudaism, Chrisitanity and Islam are all a disgusting Middle Eastern ideological degenerate religion. You’ll never be fully red pilled until you realize what happened to Eurpean Pagans
NyandUsaPoliticsblonde Jews are all mixed blood with whites right?
Zed Dez@Travis Hund Buddy I’m more that aware of what those religions have done to us, but there’s no one worse than the Brits, and what they’ve done to my people.
Privada Machina@Travis Hund Have you looked into Aryanism/Hitlersim?
NyandUsaPoliticsBen Shapiro looks like a white Italian I doubt he’s full blood
Travis HundCatholicism is the only thing even close to European spirituality. BECAUSE it is essentially pagan in tradition and practice and culture
iippo@Luke Ford My country has 1 Rabbi that came from Israel & he spends his time promoting mass immigration & migrant acceptance. Do you want him?
Privada MachinaA great book I’d recommend is ‘The Lightning and the Sun’
Zed Dez@Travis Hund I’m Irish.
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver: the JQ is as interesting as it is nuanced. I am WN but it’s not lost on me that orthodox jews have been tortured by communist jews for denoucing zionism and even the holocaust.
Privada MachinaOrthodox Jews should support WN’s. Honestly, we’re likely your best bet
Travis HundThe West fell when Pagan Rome fell to Chrisitanity.
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver and Luke: did you read the recent Forward article on the concepts of white nationalism spreading into the orthodox community? thoughts?
J. SmithPrivada Machina +1 I would support an alliance with antizionist orthodox jews, because they obviously already work in our direction without asking anything from us.
Zed Dez@J. Smith Luke covered the article yesterday.
Privada MachinaSo Jews think that their Messiah is coming still? How do Jews square the circle when the Messiah has been announced for numerous ppl. Like for example Sabbatai Zevi
Privada Machinain 1666 of all dates
TriviumI wonder if Brother Nathanel would say the same about Luke/you…:D
J. SmithZed: thanks, I’ll have to go back and watch it, then.
Travis HundEurope is not Christian.
Zed Dez@Travis Hund You have a point there. The Brits might not have been so gung ho to destroy us if it weren’t for the religious group financing them.
TriviumSome to think about. ;D
Travis HundEurope is pagan.
Privada MachinaThere has to be a satanic connection.
Ahmad David RifkinThe Crusaders were the best merger and synthesis between Nordic Paganism and Christendom
Privada Machina@J. Smith Yeah me too
iippo@Luke Ford What are your thought on Samaritanism?
Zed DezDo Jews use the term “Satanic” and what is meant by it if they do?
Travis HundAs Euopean pagans became more secular they became open to Chrisitanity as a moral system but not as a spiritual system. This is key to understand the European mind
Zed Dez@Travis Hund Were does your perception arise? I have found the opposite, at least over here in NA.
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — You *might* be interested in tracking this book which was written by a rabbi back in the late 70’s. “The Resurrection of Jesus: A Jewish Perspective” by Pinchas Lapide
Yehoishophot OliverJS I wrote a response on Nehorai’s stupid article
Travis HundOh yes I mean the opposite
Privada MachinaNice thanks, I’ll check it out
Yehoishophot OliverWN isn’t spreading; it’s just naturally very similar to Judaism, far closer than marxist baloney
Jonathan DumasFather Nathaniel is a jew, you are a goy 😃
Yehoishophot OliverJews rarely refer to satan
Privada MachinaWN isn’t spreading? You dont get out much
Yehoishophot Oliverit is a christian construct
Ahmad David RifkinWN is a reaction to an action
Privada MachinaIt’s spreading liek wild fire across the west rigth now
Ahmad David RifkinNot more nor less
Travis Hundpaganism is more of philosophy but truly I believe it’s in Europeans best interest to move away from Christianity. We’ve evolved passed this linear world view
resurrectionjose@Privada Machina — I’m not sure if that book would be given the “imprimatur” by other Jews today, but he actually believes in Jesus’ resurrection but spells out at the end why Jesus isn’t the Messiah
J. SmithTravis Hund: as a western european I feel instinctively that polytheism is true rather than monotheism – look into the christians destroying the arguments against xtianity by porphiry, celsus, julian.
Privada MachinaInteresting, somethiing I’ll get into for sure
Ahmad David RifkinImam Vladimir Lenin
Zed DezI also thought Jews did not believe in Hell, but refer to Jesus burning in excrement in Hell.
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — Just recently I subbed to his channel after putting it off for 2 years!
TriviumI do not know why Jews and Whites are not natural allies. Jews need to stop making Caucasians the out group…But that most likely will never happen.
J. SmithTravis Hund: I agree with what you say about Europeans needing to move away from monotheism and embracing again our pagan roots. It is our DNA.
resurrectionjose@Luke Ford — I’m referring to Brother Nathaniel who didn’t impress me way in the beginning over 2 years ago.
Zed Dez@Travis Hund What reading would you recommend? Hopefully you don’t promote larping activities, or do you?
Ahmad David RifkinThe same Christians who were persecuting the Jews prior in the pogroms
Zed Dez@J. Smith Do you believe DNA evolves?
Ahmad David RifkinThe Red Army rained them down like the Holy Ghost
J. SmithTomislav Sunić – great reference, thanks, Luke.
Privada MachinaJews don’t believe in God/Satan or Heaven/Hell. God is all things…if I’m not mistaken. That’s the great schism between Christians and Jews imo. Thoughts Luke?
Zed DezAre resources scarce? xD
Travis HundRead ‘God Against God’s’ by Jonathan Kirsch
Yehoishophot Oliverwe do believe in hell but it is far less of a focus
Zed DezWho are the wicked?
Privada MachinaReally. I didnt know that. I watched Jews discuss it beofre and they didnt mention any Hell
Trivium@ Zed Dez Yes DNA does evolve.
Travis Hund@Zed Dez ‘God Against the God’s’ Jonahthan Kirsch.
Yehoishophot Oliveralso discussion of Hell is different since enlightenment
resurrectionjose@Travis Hund — “You’ll never be fully red pilled until you realize what happened to Eur[o]pean Pagans.” Good. Then cite sources from reputable historians for me, and stop harping on the same shit.
Zed Dez@Trivium I believe there’s a feedback loop from DNA expression/culture then back again to the DNA. Thus my point about Christianity and Europeans making it theirs.
Privada Machina’Judaism’s Strange Gods’ by Michael Hoffman is really informative
Travis HundAs a pagan, I see polytheism more as a philosophy, while as a lot of monotheist take everything on faith and take it much more religious.
resurrectionjose@Travis Hund — As if you characters weren’t slaughtering the shit out of one another! Once again, cite here (or hit me up with a private message) and cite a bucket-load of sources from historians.
Zed DezJonathan Kirsch, he’s a prolific person is he not? Just did a search. Thanks kindly for the reco.
Travis HundTruly, organized religion is the issue, monotheism though creates an ultimatum. That’s my issue.
Zed Dez@Privada Machina read that, thanks
Privada MachinaWhat is so special about the 6 million number? Jews have mentioned 6 million dozens of times.
Trivium@Zed Dez I never thought about DNA being a loop before….you may be right.
Privada MachinaNo problem bro @Zed Dez
Zed Dez@Trivium Yes, its a theoretical device at the moment.
resurrectionjose@Travis Hund — You characters are virtually no different than dumb-ass Native Americans who love playing that horse crap, and yet they were slaughtering one another before ‘Whitey’ came on the scene.
iippoCole has been back peddling ever since JDL threatened him.
J. SmithYehoishophot Oliver: to echo Privada’s question: What is so special about the 6 million number? Jews have mentioned 6 million dozens of times (throughout history)
Privada MachinaBack peddling? He getting threatened.
Travis Hund@Zed Dez If you want a really good and short but sweet book that’s cheap read ‘Pagan Ideas of Immortality’ by Tarl Warwick aka The YouTuber Styxhexenhammer666. That’s a really good one
Privada MachinaOh sorry I read that wrong bro
Ahmad David RifkinOld Fiend Trump
resurrectionjoseThe same goes out to any other Neo-pagans within this ‘Live Chat’: Please hit me up with a PM and cite me plenty of sources from reputable scholars of Euro history regarding Pagan/Christian warfare.
Zed Dez@Travis Hund I’ll look into it. I know styx’s work. But I went all esoteric/occult before that lad was even born. I’m a late GenXr.
Travis Hund@resurrectionjose Go listen to Survive the Jive, he’s excellent