Luke Ford

Historian Marc B. Shapiro writes: “Let’s begin with the common practice in the Israeli haredi world of ignoring what the Sages tell us in Kiddushin 29a and not teaching young men a trade so that instead they can devote themselves to Torah study.[1] People assume that this is a late twentieth-century phenomenon. While it is true that the numbers of people who currently follow this approach is much larger than ever before in history, it must be noted that even in previous years there were those who acted in the same fashion.”

Don emails: Aside from the reality that the name origins of Jews indicated they were tradesmen (Schneider and its variations-Tailor, Shecter and its variations, Butcher, anything with a Schmidt ending meaning they were a smith. Goldschmidt being a goldsmith or Jeweler) one of the short stories in William Saroyan’s inaugural collection: The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze and other stories, gave a good practical reason for learning a trade. Saroyan told the story of a young prince who traveled his country looking for a bride. When he found one who met his qualifications she was unimpressed that he was a prince. She asked him what he did and when he said he was a prince and didn’t have to do anything she was not impressed and either rejected him or told him to come back when he could do something. At any rate he studied with carpet weavers and became a very good carpet weaver. The girl is sufficiently impressed that they get married. One day, the prince while walking around the capital by himself not in any sort of princely attire was kidnapped. He realized that if he revealed himself to be a prince, the kidnappers would probably kill him, so he told them that he was a skilled carpet weaver and that his carpets fetched a high price from the King. He wove some carpets with his distinctive design and the robbers took them to the Palace. When the King, the Princess and their advisors saw the carpets, they recognized that the prince had woven them so they dispatched soldiers to follow the people who had brought the carpet to the palace and they were able to kill the kidnappers and rescue the prince. That according to the story is the reason to learn a trade.

Unfortunately, even if you marry the daughter of a very wealthy Jewish family, I don’t know how your kidnappers are going to transmit your skill as an Alexander practitioner to your family so they can come and rescue you. Better to take a jewelry making class at community college.

Historian Marc B. Shapiro blogs:

Saudi Arabia is not a theocracy.

When the State was established there was no automatic assumption that the status quo in all religious matters would carry on (see R. Herzog’s constitution and the correspondence published there) Had the religious Zionists in 1948 argued that compulsory religious marriage was not a good idea, it never would have carried over.

I don’t know if I am pessimistic about them taking over. I was simply dealing with the scenario if the DO take over, which is what they are hopeful of. It could be that when the government decides to let them work without going to the army that this will moderate them, since they will be out of the yeshiva and integrating. If that happens, then everything will change.

As for the interesting fact that the Knesset representation has not changed, surely you don’t think if the haredi percentage was say 20 percent, that this would not affect the Knesset representation.

There are 120 members of Knesset and 5 are part of United Torah Judaism. If you assume that 2 Shas representatives represent a real haredi electorate, you still have less than the seven percent that we are told = the haredi population. But if the haredi population moves up percentage wise, you can expect representation to move up, not to exactly to parallel it.

…I agree with Sanhedrin. Let me also add, responding to comments above, that people don’t realize that democracy is the best thing for religion. Any time religion is connected to government is ends up hurting religion, as religion becomes identified with repression etc. Look at how strong religion is in the U.S. vs. Europe, which suffered under repressive religion for so long, and this led to strong anti-clerical feelings.

Religion can only thrive when it is freely chosen, not when it is compelled.

Historian Marc B. Shapiro blogs:

R. Moshe Eisemann, who used to have a great deal of influence in the moderate haredi camp, wrote as follows with reference to the Jerusalem fanatics who throw stones at passing cars (not knowing, of course, if the drivers are Jewish or Arab): “If it is true that he who hurls a stone were well-advised to be pretty sure that he is doing the right thing, I believe that the one who feels no urge to do so, must engage in even deeper soul-searching.” Tradition 26 (Winter 1992), p. 34. Maybe I was absent that day in yeshiva, but I was never taught that it is normal to have an urge to throw a stone at a fellow Jew (which of course could kill him, as we have seen with the Palestinian stone-throwers). On the contrary, I was taught that I should have an urge to show the non-religious Jew about the beauty of Shabbat, which an invitation to a Shabbat table will accomplish much better than a rock in his windshield.