A healthy Muslim, Arab, Palestinian is going to dislike, perhaps even hate, Jews because there is a Jewish state in a land he believes belongs to his people, and because this tiny Jewish state so vastly outperforms his own countries. Rather than live with that shame, he will rationally prefer to live in contempt, dislike, hatred and conspiracy theories. Low IQ peoples such as Arabs and blacks (Arabs average about 85 on IQ tests, American blacks the same) love conspiracy theories because they explain their low achievement by blaming outsiders. Any low-achieving group is going to love explanations for their failures that blame out-groups.
Imagine you are an Arab and there’s this Israel in your midst and it is a thriving country supported by the world’s biggest power — the United States of America. You will want to do everything you can to make the lives of Jews miserable. It is totally in their self-interest for Muslims to rally against Israel on college campuses and to press for divestment from Israel. I wonder if any Arab or Muslim who does not support this is, perhaps, sick. He’s lacking in group spirit. He does not identify with the welfare of his people.
That does not mean he should live his life so obsessed about hating Jews that he can’t enjoy his wife, kids, friends and community and a walk in the park. His Jew hatred should not rationally cause him to commit criminal acts against Jews if there’s a likelihood of getting caught and punished. Why should he ruin his life just to hurt a Jew? Yes, I know some Muslims will, and it is probably in Islamic interests for some Muslims to go suicidal against Jews, but most Muslims have lives to lead beyond hating Jews. But it makes sense to me that Muslims as a group dedicate themselves to harassing and hurting Jews.
If Israel is the Jewish state, which it is, then Jews around the world will bear the brunt of the anger of people who hate Israel. All Jews become targets in a new way because there’s a Jewish state on land that Muslims and Arabs regard as their own.
Different groups have different interests and these interests clash. Strongly identifying in-groups such as Jews, blacks and Muslims are inevitably going to have distrust, if not a burn, against outsiders.
Ryan Bell:
“Low IQ peoples such as Arabs and blacks…”
WHAT? You must be joking. You’re implying they’re less intelligent.
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such blatantly racist views. Wow!
You’re delusional.
There’s no such sin as racism. If there were, somebody would have mentioned it prior to the 20th Century, and yet every moral tradition, prior to the past 120 years, is strangely silent about this supposedly horrible thing called “racism.”
I would think you would know that is not a valid form of argument. There are only two valid ways of arguing. One, is to point out errors in fact. Two, is to point out errors in logic. Name calling is not an honorable argument.
Ryan Bell: “I don’t have time for that. This is such a basic idea. So shocking to see someone deny something so obvious. Nobody called cancer ‘cancer’ until they did. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t cancer before.”
Chaim Amalek The Torah does not use the word “racism”, which is a recent invention, but it does have something to say about prejudice involving marriage of a Black woman (an Ethiopian) to a high status Jew, Moses. See Numbers, Chapter 12:
1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
4 And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.
13 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.
15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.
16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.
27 mins · Like
Luke Ford There was no halacha that developed out of that to say you should not notice racial differences. No great rabbi has ever written a sefer against racism. The idea is laughable.
9 mins · Like
Christoph Donnellan Races differ in many respects and the idea that intelligence is equally distributed amongst all human population groups aka races, is what is truly delusional.
3 mins · Unlike · 1
Chaim Amalek It is one thing to “notice” racial differences, which is fine, and quite another to say “You should not have married that Ethiopian woman because, well, she’s black.” One perfectly plausible interpretation of these verses is that God turned Miriam into a whiter-than-white leper for criticizing Moses’ interracial marriage to an Ethiopian.
2 mins · Unlike · 1
Christoph Donnellan As for Arabs, though, one must make distinctions. I do not think the average I.Q. amongst Lebanese, Syrian, or Palestinian Christians, is only 85. Yemenis, Saudis, Egyptians, etc. might be different.
2 mins · Unlike · 1
Luke Ford All strong in-groups tend to have hatred for out-groups. That has nothing to do with IQ.
21 hrs · Like · 1
Christoph Donnellan Not necessarily outright hatred but suspicion and disdain, at the least.
21 hrs · Unlike · 2
Ryan Bell I thought for sure I’d read you the decrying the horrors of anti-Semitism
21 hrs · Unlike · 2
Scott Cameron Is this why the mizrahim dislike the ashkenazim?
21 hrs · Unlike · 2
Nathan James · Friends with Ryan Bell
” Low IQ peoples such as Arabs and blacks love conspiracy theories…”
go back and read that again.
21 hrs · Like · 1
Alex Trivunovic Be honest Ryan Bell. Has this possibility never occurred to you?
16 hrs · Unlike · 1
Luke Ford Different groups have different gifts.
10 hrs · Like · 1
Luke Ford “Anti-Semitism” is simply a slur thrown at people whose group has clashing interests with Jews.
10 hrs · Like · 2
Ryan Bell Which possibility, Alex?
10 hrs · Like
Luke Ford Ryan, do you regard every people in the world as having identical gifts? Or do different peoples have different gifts, on average? For instance, the Japanese and Australian aboriginees strike me as two people with distinct gifts. Having different gifts does not make you less valuable to God or to the world, it just might mean your people are not a great fit with certain countries. For instance, Jews were not a great fit in Europe in WWII.
10 hrs · Edited · Like
Alex Trivunovic The possibility that different groups of people are different in some fundamental ways.
10 hrs · Unlike · 1
Ryan Bell No, certainly not the way you’re conceiving of it. Your blindness to your own biases is staggering. I’m not going to do your research for you but suffice it to say, the whole notion of IQ is dubious at best as a measure of anything useful. Race is social constructed. In other words, race is not a biological category. The assumptions behind the supposed correlation between race and intelligence are always made from a white, western perspective (no shock that rich white people with too much time on their hands would conclude that poor black people are too stupid to be their equals). Finally, the opportunties afforded people to learn and acheive their human potential are not spread evenly. If you think my child’s performance on a standandardized test and a black child her same age in south LA has anything to do with the color of their skin you’re delusional. And I’m not saying that as a put down. I’m being serious.
10 hrs · Like · 2
Ryan Bell
10 hrs · Like · 1
Bob Anthony · Friends with Ryan Bell
wow, luke, you really are a bigot, arent you? how do you sleep at night? you could double your iq and still come up with a two-digit number.
10 hrs · Edited · Like
Alex Trivunovic I am not rich, Ryan. I also don’t come from a high IQ ethnic group, so intelligence studies wouldn’t benefit me in any way at all. On the other hand i have been on this earth for almost 37 years, and have lived in many different countries. I came to very similar conclusions based on my own experiences with many different types of people. Also, declaring a discussion to be over whenever it suits you kinda tells me that you don’t have much of an argument and would rather all this went away. It won’t.
Luke Ford Name calling is not an honorable form of argument Ryan Bell. You should know better as someone who has received a lot of abusive names as a result of your own search for truth.
8 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
Luke Ford It’s interesting how race realists in this thread feel no need to hurl abuse at their adversaries but our opponents are not able to argue in an honorable way.
8 hrs · Like · 1
Alex Trivunovic As Fred Reed once said: Those who have arguments, make them. Those who don’t, call you names.
8 hrs · Unlike · 2
Alex Trivunovic Ryan and his friends are talking about this thread on his page. You should check it out, Luke. They’re genociding straw men over there.
8 hrs · Unlike · 1
Luke Ford Good to see reasoned discourse on the internet.
8 hrs · Like · 1
Alex Trivunovic From what i can gather, all we have to do is check our privilege, and things will become clear. Also, one of them accused you of holocaust denial, which is reasonable based on your earlier statements.
8 hrs · Unlike · 1
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
Luke, I’m as appalled at what you write as Ryan. While racism is real, race is not.
7 hrs · Like
Luke Ford As you probably know, that is not an argument. Do you have a point to make aside from your feelings?
7 hrs · Like
Alex Trivunovic Race is indeed real. See video above.
7 hrs · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
I’m stating a scientific consensus. To you that may not qualify as a syllogism, but until I see mainstream science reverse itself on that point, I’m not about to go with the outlyers.
7 hrs · Like
Alex Trivunovic Aage Rendalen is a Norwegian name, so you should be familiar with Harald Eia and his series.
7 hrs · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
I am and I have watched it. Give me a quote from Eia himself in which he says that race is a biological reality. You won’t find it.
7 hrs · Edited · Like
Alex Trivunovic You don’t think any good points are made in that episode?
7 hrs · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
Absolutely, it’s a good series.
7 hrs · Unlike · 1
Alex Trivunovic Obviously, reasonable people can differ on a wide variety of issues, but i’m not sure how you can watch that episode and come away thinking that race doesn’t exist. Differences in skin colour are visible evolutionary adaptations, why would there not be other adaptations beneath the skin?
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
What we do have are different cultures that often coincide with different physical traits. Birds of a feather have always flocked together for protection and community. Some cultures, such as the Jewish, has attributed enormous status to learning and literacy and Jews have excelled way out of proportion to their percentage of the population. You see the same with some Asian cultures. In the US, the biggest difference between blacks and whites is not skin color, but culture, and culture has a huge influence on performance, be it sports, arts or academics.
7 hrs · Unlike · 2
Alex Trivunovic I agree, culture has an impact on how people behave. Where does culture come from? I think it is reasonable to posit that it is very influenced by our genetic makeup, which is a product of evolutionary adaptation. Hence, race exists. It is the sum of all of our genes that have been molded by our ancestral environments.
7 hrs · Unlike · 1
Luke Ford Aage, stay with us a while. We need your voice of reason.
Luke Ford Aage, how are you enjoying the vibrancy of Norway’s third world immigrants.
7 hrs · Like · 1
Alex Trivunovic Below the belt, Luke.
7 hrs · Unlike · 1
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
Luke, I have lived in Virginia since 1999, and a lots has happened since I left, but as far as I can tell, Norway has had far more problems with its homegrown blue-eyed terrorists than Somali refugees. No doubt you have heard about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
Aage Rendalen · Friends with Ryan Bell and 4 others
Any immigrant community from the developing world is going to be a mixed bag. Some of them, like orthodox Jews praise God that they were not born women, and act accordingly. Others are reduced to depend on hand-outs, just like the wealthy in this country. And yet others are set to become the future leaders of the country. Humanity itself is a mixed bag, made up of the good, the bad and the ugly. Outward physical features are not much of a clue as to which category people fall into. That’s why I’m more surprised than shocked at your white supremacy doctrine. I’m sorry you should end up holding such disgraceful views.
33 mins · Edited · Like
Luke Ford You throw around a lot of slurs. You’re good at calling names. When did I ever say whites were supreme? I guess you can just make stuff up.
37 mins · Like
Luke Ford ” Some of them, like orthodox Jews praises God that they were not born women, and act accordingly.” How is that exactly? I guess they’re raping and pillaging?
36 mins · Like
Luke Ford I want the same things for all peoples equally — self-determination and freedom of association.
35 mins · Like
Aage Rendalen · Friends with Ryan Bell and 4 others
Even Palestinians afflicted with low IQ?
32 mins · Like
Luke Ford IQ has nothing to do with somebody’s worth in the eyes of God and man. Palestinians should have everything I want for my group and this whole discussion started because I said that a healthy Palestinian/Arab/Muslims has rational reasons to dislike Jews and to want to make their live difficult. Different groups have different interests. If I were a Palestinian, I’d be cheering on every attack on Israel.
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
I just watched the hit piece on Norway you posted. This is the first time I’ve seen anybody suggest that immigrants were to blame for being massacred by a blue-eyed neo-Nazi Norwegian. What it does get right is that violent rape is primarily committed by men from cultures that denigrate women, but that’s like discounting frat house rapes committed by natives since it didn’t take place in some dark back alley. And the much discredited idea of no-go zones where sharia rules is just made up. What is true is that Muslim fundamentalists are just as obnoxious as fundamentalists everywhere, including those who hurl stones at cars driving on Shabbath.
26 mins · Like
Luke Ford Rape is committed by men from every culture when they have the opportunity and believe they can get away with it.
25 mins · Like · 1
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
“IQ has nothing to do with somebody’s worth in the eyes of God and man.” This reminds me of the controversy the prophet of your childhood was involved in when she wrote that some races of men were the result of “amalgamation between man and beast”. When she was roundly condemned for these views, in the 1860s, Uriah Smith, family friend and editor, replied that it was no problem that hottentots and “digger” Indians had animal blood in their veins because as long as they had a drop of Adam’s blood, they were okay with God.
22 mins · Like
Luke Ford When you’re not throwing slurs, you make a lot of good points. You are a credit to your race. The more I learn about 19th Century Europe, the more comfortable I feel with its worldview.
22 mins · Like
Luke Ford Every strongly identifying in-group has distrust and negative feelings about out-groups. You think Hottentots think whites are wonderful? You think Jews think goyim are great? You think Muslims are thrilled with non-Muslims? You think SDAs are filled with respect for non-SDAs?
21 mins · Like
Luke Ford A lot of black thinkers have had similarly negative views about ice people (whites). That’s a universal pattern, it is not unique to whites.
20 mins · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
Luke, you’re dancing around my ‘slurs.’ You can’t write somebody off as intellectually deficient and then turn around and say that that’s no problem, what’s 15 points of IQ among friends.
19 mins · Edited · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
As for jingoism, I didn’t know we had any disagreement on that score.
Luke Ford Many of my friends have more than 15 IQ points on me. I don’t mope around because of it. I’ve never scored above 130 on an IQ test. “Then say that’s no problem.” It’s no problem for some things, it’s a big problem for other things. Certain tasks strongly need a high IQ, other tasks not so much. Blacks have many gifts that non-blacks lack such an easy spontaneity, charisma, a gift for improvisation. Non-blacks could never have come up with jazz or rap. I don’t think blacks mope that they’re not Japanese and vice versa.
17 mins · Edited · Like
Luke Ford A lot of hard subjects in school were too much for me and I cheated to pass. I wish I had a higher IQ.
15 mins · Like
Aage Rendalen · 5 mutual friends
Oh, come on! You can’t be that much of a retrograde, Luke! You know as well as I that within every population group there is a great deal of genetic variety. There are going to be blacks far more intelligent than you and me and there are going to be those who perform worse than us. That goes for all groups of humans. I’ll read your next post, but then I’m finished with this topic. Still can’t believe you speaking as if from a compound in Idaho.
10 mins · Like
Luke Ford Aage, you’re a mentch. You should have a good Shabbos.
10 mins · Like
Christoph Donnellan Why do some seemingly intelligent people insist that races have equal intelligence when history, common sense, direct contact, and experience, screams, ‘no, they do not.’ Because, they don’t like the thought or the possible implications.
Christoph Donnellan Race isn’t real but organ transplant donors and recipients are typed by race and ethnic origin. lol. One of a thousand ways race is real.
4 mins · Like
Christoph Donnellan I could see these old liberals saying to themselves, ‘but, but…it could hurt someone’s feelings.’ ”These people suffered through history, so owe them this or that…’
Christoph Donnellan I recall many years ago being in a college anthropology class where the instructor nervously addressed the issue of race for about 10 minutes or so of our entire course. She adamantly stuck to ‘race doesn’t really exist’ line, but then later on, discussed her work as a forensic anthropologist and talked about how she identified homicide and accident victims remains by sex, age, and race! How bout’ that!
Dr. Sally Satel writes for the New York Times Sunday Magazine in 2002: “In practicing medicine, I am not colorblind. I always take note of my patient’s race. So do many of my colleagues. We do it because certain diseases and treatment responses cluster by ethnicity. Recognizing these patterns can help us diagnose disease more efficiently and prescribe medications more effectively. When it comes to practicing medicine, stereotyping often works.”
