01:00 Matt’s substack, https://historyspeaks.substack.com/
03:00 Matt’s Twitter, https://x.com/History__Speaks
09:00 Realism vs moralism in international conflict
21:00 The sources of our self-esteem
26:00 The seasons of a man’s life
27:00 Matt is a lawyer (University of Chicago)
29:00 Why did Luke never marry?
31:00 Luke diagnosed with ADHD, Matt with obsessive-compulsive disorder
33:50 Enlightenment means respect for fact
42:00 The buffered identity vs the porous identity, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=149512
53:00 The invention of racism as a moral category
57:00 Luke & Matt share their hero systems
1:00:00 That Noble Dream: The ‘Objectivity Question’ and the American Historical Profession, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=138784
1:02:50 Matt’s activist Twitter feed, https://x.com/History__Speaks
1:05:00 How Matt has been changed by studying law
1:13:00 Matt’s asked about serious thinkers who are Zionists, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris
1:18:00 JPOST: Experts: ICC, UN blamed Israel for a famine that never happened in Gaza – exclusive, https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-806735
1:26:00 Everything, including the category of civilian, is contingent
1:35:00 The “Good War”: Preparations for a War against Civilians, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=155491
1:53:00 Human rights, https://www.lukeford.net/Dennis/indexp2a.html
2:00:00 AP: The war in Gaza has wiped out entire Palestinian families. AP documents 60 who lost dozens or more, https://apnews.com/article/gaza-palestinians-families-israel-war-deaths-a9f8bcfe402c17f1f78903eae67b7a7d
2:03:00 BBC: ‘I’m calling from Israeli intelligence. We have the order to bomb. You have two hours’, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079
2:15:00 Black September, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
2:20:00 No, we’re not in a new cold war with China, https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/05/07/cold-war-cold-peace-united-states-china-xi-decoupling-trade/
2:30:00 The Last Utopia: Human Rights in History, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=142846
2:37:00 Matt’s first published scholarly article – did the Nazis plan world genocides? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17504902.2024.2326262
2:42:50 College protests for Palestine
2:45:00 Mearsheimer: ‘Israelis wouldn’t mind a general conflagration because that would facilitate ethnic cleansing.’, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=153903
2:48:00 Israeli morale has plunged over the past three months
2:52:00 Ze’ev Jabotinsky – serious Zionist thinker, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze’ev_Jabotinsky
2:55:00 Matt’s substack, https://historyspeaks.substack.com/
2:57:30 Dooovid joins, https://x.com/RebDoooovid
3:22:00 BBC: ‘I’m calling from Israeli intelligence. We have the order to bomb. You have two hours’, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079
3:36:00 A Short History of International Humanitarian Law, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=155471
4:13:00 Elliott Blatt joins, discusses Juneteenth
4:15:00 Why can’t black pride and gay pride work together?
4:20:00 Human rights as a Marxist motte-and-bailey trick, https://quillbot.com/blog/motte-and-bailey-fallacy/
4:29:00 The reorganization of priorities after a tough illness
Complete transcript of the show: https://lukeford.net/blog/?page_id=155712
Podnotes summary: I chatted with my friend Matt “History Speaks,” a history PhD student at the London School of Economics. We discussed his Egyptian heritage and how it shaped his views on the Israel-Palestine conflict, contrasting with typical American perspectives. He feels that while Christians in Egypt face discrimination, they generally sympathize more with Palestinians.
Growing up half-Egyptian in America made him feel like an outsider sometimes, but he had a good childhood overall. We also talked about historical narratives and who shapes them, using World War I trench poets as an example of powerful storytelling.
Matt believes enlightenment values have brought progress worldwide despite some traditional norms being beneficial too. On social media’s role in self-esteem, Matt spends much time there but gets more satisfaction from professional achievements than online interactions.
Lastly, we touched on love’s impact on self-esteem and how relationships can reveal our true selves even as we might present ourselves more empathetically to loved ones. As for life stages, men often focus on building their “kingdom” until around 40 before turning attention to family and community – a concept Matt finds interesting given his own journey from law to academia.
Matt: I struggled with my career as a lawyer, despite doing well in law school and serving on the Chicago Law Review. I wanted to establish myself before starting a family, expecting that my current self-centeredness would diminish over time.
Luke: My father theorized that we can only do about six hours of intense intellectual work daily.
Matt: So now, I’m focusing on building my own “kingdom” during these prime hours. In the future, I plan to devote myself more to others—like a wife and children.
Luke: I’ve never married or had kids due to poor health from being raised vegetarian until discovering beef organ capsules three years ago which improved my condition significantly. Discussing masculinity last week, I argued it’s defined by one’s ability to support a family—a view not everyone shares but is common among traditional perspectives.
Eight months ago, an ADHD diagnosis changed everything for me; this disorder made it difficult for me to focus on mundane tasks and influenced my emotional stability. With medication, however, life has become much more manageable.
We also discussed how enlightenment values like respect for facts shaped our understanding of science and progress while maintaining religious beliefs. Some enlightenment thinkers questioned established doctrines yet held onto their faiths.
The right often views human nature skeptically—believing in the necessity of societal structures like religion and state for guidance—while the left tends toward trusting individual judgment in determining morality.
As someone who believes what happens around us affects us deeply (a porous identity), even neighbors’ actions feel impactful personally. However, many adopt what Charles Taylor calls a “buffered identity,” where they don’t feel affected by external behaviors or morals unless directly involved—an outlook reflecting modernity’s detachment compared to pre-modern interconnectedness.
Matt: In discussions about anti-slavery sentiment, it’s clear that such views largely stem from the Enlightenment. Earlier moral and religious teachings focused on treating slaves kindly rather than abolishing slavery altogether. Notable figures like Jesus, Mohammed, and Aristotle did not advocate for abolition.
Luke: As for personal hero systems, I value truth-seeking as a heroic trait and believe in a divine being who rewards good over evil. The concept of a hero system was introduced by Ernest Becker in his 1963 book “The Denial of Death,” suggesting we all seek meaning to counter our fear of insignificance. Even those with secular beliefs adhere to some form of heroism by standing against ignorance or pursuing scientific truths.
Matt: On the topic of legal studies influencing one’s perspective, it can lead to viewing issues through a lens of contentious logic or finding ways to deconstruct arguments—a skill often used by lawyers but less desirable elsewhere. In my view, many lawyers are poor writers despite their intelligence.
Discussing serious Zionist thinkers brings up historical figures like Benny Morris who is critical yet influential in Israeli history despite his controversial views on Palestinians.
Finally, learning new skills or knowledge comes at the cost of losing other abilities or perspectives—much like how studying law has shaped my analytical approach but also limited my appreciation for certain literary forms.
The International Criminal Court (ICC) aimed to retrieve hostages and end violence.
Matt: Despite powerful allies like the United States, Israel may face consequences for these actions. During initial months of conflict, Israel bombed homes deliberately, targeting even low-level Hamas militants at home with their families—resulting in high civilian casualties.
After World War II, international laws evolved to protect civilians during war—a relatively new concept that reflects changing values rather than eternal truths. Western nations now take such norms more seriously compared to past conflicts like Vietnam and Korea.
Netanyahu’s references to World War II suggest he saw his cause as justifying severe wartime actions similar to those once accepted by “good guys” like Churchill. However, today’s standards condemn many acts from WWII as crimes against humanity.
Civilian protection has become increasingly important since WWII, though initially there was resistance and legal ambiguity about aerial bombardment of civilians. Today’s attitudes have shifted significantly due to evolving narratives around civilian suffering and moral responsibility during conflict.
Ultimately, human nature can lead people to support extreme measures against perceived enemies when feeling threatened—yet liberal institutions do exert some influence on behavior modification over time. For instance, Israel reduced its rate of killing after initial responses post-October 7th attack by Hamas due largely to external pressures and incentives.
In heated debates, it’s hard to change minds unless someone is already on the fence. Emotions run high and people cling to their beliefs. As an Orthodox Jewish convert, I’ve noticed that being part of a group can make you more defensive about its views. For example, most Jews shun those who are anti-Zionist unless they align with intellectual or political groups that hold different values.
We’re all biased by our communities and upbringing, which influence our judgments. However, this doesn’t mean we can’t recognize clear facts when emotions subside. Consider jury duty; even if biases exist, overwhelming evidence usually leads to just verdicts.
Matt: Douglas Murray argues Israel has a moral army because it warns civilians before attacks – a claim I find misleading since such warnings have often been insufficient or nonexistent according to recent reports.
Finally, group identity plays a significant role in how we perceive others and make decisions. While genetics and socialization are crucial factors in forming our preferences and morals, reason also matters over time as passions cool down and facts become clearer.
I’ll criticize them differently, without assuming bad faith. Which Middle Eastern army sets the moral standard in war? It’s tough to say; none seem to fully comply with the laws of conflict. Both sides often commit numerous war crimes.
The Turkish military might be better than some, but still not ideal. For instance, Egypt and Israel would behave differently in a conflict compared to Hamas, yet neither would adhere strictly to the law of armed conflict as we understand it.
Matt: Which nations have militaries that respect human rights most closely? The United States, France, Britain, and Canada train their soldiers for compliance with international law. That doesn’t mean they’re perfect—U.S. actions in Afghanistan and Iraq differ from Israeli conduct in Gaza.
For example, Israel has targeted homes with bombs killing Hamas members along with civilian families—a practice documented by Airwars and testimonies about a program targeting family homes.
The U.S., however, wouldn’t engage in such tactics in Iraq despite its own issues like torture post-9/11 which was later reversed under Obama’s administration. These examples show some norms are taken seriously.
In terms of brutality within Middle Eastern conflicts—the rate at which civilians die is high when compared globally—even Jordan once killed thousands during an uprising against Palestinians.
Palestinians have been disruptive when displaced to countries like Lebanon or Syria due partly to discrimination but also demographic concerns regarding citizenship—which could disrupt delicate communal balances within these societies.
Academics sometimes hype threats for job security—like how IR scholars may exaggerate a new Cold War with China after jobs dropped post-Cold War era.
Human rights concepts evolved significantly after WWII; previously tied more directly to what states granted citizens became seen as universal post-1960s through organizations like Amnesty International.
However personal beliefs can bias our views on sacred topics—we should strive for objectivity even though complete detachment from our values is challenging.
Matt: My first scholarly article debunked claims that Nazis planned exterminating Jews outside Europe—while acknowledging any Jew under Nazi rule was indeed at risk given their ideology.
In 1943, Jewish slave laborers in Tunisia received better rations than those in Europe, highlighting varying policies. Historians focus on what happened; I believe there was no extermination plan in Tunisia contrary to some claims.
Regarding the Middle East conflict, many intellectuals and historians lean towards Palestine over Israel. The release of Israeli documents led to critical perspectives from “new historians” like Morris and Pappe. Despite societal pressures, I’ve spoken out for Palestinian statehood without endorsing extreme measures like Hamas’s actions.
Western opinions on the Middle East differ significantly from those within the region itself. For instance, after October 7th, Western polls showed opposition to certain events that were supported by majorities in the Middle East.
The pro-Palestine protests on American campuses are significant as they raise awareness much like Vietnam War protests did despite not being universally popular. These movements could impact Israel’s reputation if allegations about targeting civilians during war are substantiated.
John Mearsheimer suggests that while the US seeks stability in the Middle East without escalation, Israelis may see benefits in a complicated situation facilitating territorial control and addressing security concerns with Hezbollah.
Matt: My analysis is that emotions rather than rational strategy drive current Israeli actions against Hezbollah and Hamas – this approach seems counterproductive and risks damage to their international standing.
On my Substack platform, I’m analyzing Gaza health data to infer civilian casualty ratios which seem higher than reported by Israel – challenging official narratives with demographic-based evidence.
Luke: My standard is to share more than 50 percent of earnings or donate gifts through PayPal. This applies to anyone who comes on my show, like Mike Enoch and Eric Striker.
When we get significant super chats, if it’s over $50 or $100, I give at least half to the guest because they’re often the reason for those donations. But this isn’t common in our industry; usually, you negotiate shares beforehand.
No one has ever shared their earnings with me. Once when I brought it up and was refused, I felt foolish and didn’t ask again—though it does bother me.
Dooovid: You should discuss these things upfront; otherwise, guests might back out.
I’ve only earned about $300 from streaming over four years; most years don’t even meet tax thresholds. Church of Entropy chose not to monetize our joint streams.
At chess clubs or synagogues, making people feel welcome can have a huge impact—especially on those with low self-esteem—but many organizations fail at this inclusivity once they establish their core group.
The richer a synagogue is, often the less welcoming it feels—they must convey exclusivity somehow without outright rejecting people.
On human rights: They depend on enforcement by power holders—the illusion that individuals can protect their own rights doesn’t hold much weight in reality. Self-esteem varies based on success but having supporters outweighs dealing with haters.
An article about Israel’s military warning Gaza residents before bombings highlights complex moral issues surrounding conflict and identity narratives important for some people’s self-perception as part of an ethical nation-state.
Dooov: In society, a person who didn’t attend university but found success in business is often admired, especially within the Orthodox community. These wealthy individuals become heroes and protectors of their communities despite sometimes engaging in less respected professions like real estate or nursing homes.
However, in more progressive circles, respect from non-Jews and academia is also valued. This difference reflects varying identities within Jewish culture – some prioritize internal community validation while others seek external approval.
The idea that each generation morally declines contrasts with beliefs in human progression towards rationality and enlightenment. Views on international humanitarian law have evolved too; previously military necessity trumped civilian needs, but modern treaties emphasize humanitarian concerns.
Many countries haven’t signed these protocols due to disagreements over definitions and principles like proportionality. This has led to debates about how wars are fought and whether certain actions constitute war crimes or human rights violations – topics still hotly contested today.
The end of war brought a call for more humane international laws, but critics argue these new rules are confusing and hurt civilian protection. The formalized approach to humanitarian law seems idealistic, yet some say it’s more about feeling good than practical change.
Critics believe the development of such laws blurs lines between civilians and combatants, endangering non-combatants by shifting responsibility from defenders to attackers. They also see the push for “humane” regulations as unrealistic, likening it to gender differences in competition—men understand its rules while women may not engage similarly.
This critique extends to feminist and Marxist influences on international law that propose impractical changes. These academics prioritize utopian ideals over real-world effects, focusing on victims’ rights without considering broader implications.
Human Rights Watch’s interpretation of wartime legal obligations faced skepticism from experts who favored traditional principles like proportionality—a vague concept allowing military actions if justified by necessity.
By the late ’90s, focus shifted towards ethnic conflicts in Yugoslavia and Rwanda. With UN intervention came a renewed interest in enforcing humanitarian law. This period saw an influx of young female professionals into the field, influenced by feminist and Marxist ideologies aiming for nurturing government roles.
Despite initial resistance, many now accept Protocol I’s provisions as customary law due to advocacy by organizations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. These groups emphasize civilian protection during conflict—a significant shift from pre-World War II norms where civilians’ fates were tied with their state’s fortunes.
Elliott Blatt: During Reagan’s presidency, media would often mock his slip-ups. Now, when a Republican becomes president, homelessness is highlighted as a major issue. Under Biden, despite claims of economic success, homelessness persists or worsens.
Our perceptions are influenced by our own biases and belief systems—just like an evangelical Christian has their faith; others have their ideologies they consider superior.
Switching topics: Rony Guldmann has great ideas but isn’t the best speaker. Academics often struggle with public speaking due to overcomplicated writing styles that hinder clear communication.
I’ve subscribed to Podnotes for $34 a month; it provides 1200 minutes of transcription and summarization services. Removing “you know” from one show transcript cut out 369 instances!
Post-illness brings nihilism followed by internal reorganization and reprioritizing life goals—for me, fixing simple things like a hole in the wall and focusing on career ambitions while eliminating distractions.
On the technical side, I’m learning to edit my video shorts better after initially uploading many with awkward pauses. It’s tedious correcting these mistakes made before mastering the AI editing software.
Lastly, I haven’t tried monetizing my content much since it doesn’t go viral; my audience is small yet selective—a bit like Spinal Tap’s “more selective” fan base reference.
EB: Anyway, I’m working today instead of celebrating Juneteenth—let’s catch up tomorrow.
