I just interviewed the author Andrew Fraser by Skype. He’s based in Australia and in July published this new book (reviewed by Roger Devlin). His magnum opus, The WASP Question, came out in 2011. If you read just one of his two books, read The WASP Question.
A retired professor, Fraser may be the most famous Christian intellectual on the Alt Right (along with E. Michael Jones).
Here are some highlights:
Andrew: “I don’t believe that you can make a religion out of racial identity.”
“Ethnos needs logos and logos needs ethnos… Religion has to be grounded in an ethne (people). I’m in the middle between the Alt Right and Christianity. Traditional Christianity does offer a fusing of those two strands.”
Luke: “The approach you elucidate is more socially acceptable. Not many professionals wants to identify as white nationalists but they can throw their energies into invigorating their local church.”
Andrew: “And it offers a way of bringing back the working class… The working class are not fools. They know they’ve been abandoned.”
“I’m not some snaggle-toothed redneck who wants to lynch all the niggers. I can get along perfectly happily with brown and black people in classes [at college].”
“If you could get Christians to recognize that Jews are their enemy from a very basic theological point. Jews have no problem recognizing Christians as their enemy. This is the whole problem with modern Christianity. They can’t recognize enemies as such and fight against them.”
“Jesus refers to the Jews as the ‘synagogue of Satan,’ which from a Christian point of view, they are… In discipling the nations, you have to distinguish between friends and enemies. If you could get the average churchgoer to accept the wisdom of the Church Father, it was no biggie for them to recognize the Jews as their enemy, you would go a long way to laying the foundation for a genuine Christian ethno-theology. This is why the contemporary church forswears any desire whatever to create a Christian nation. Because to create a Christian nation, you would have to exclude Jews, Muslims and so on. Unless you can do that, you’re going to be trapped within this liberal individualistic pietistic evangelical framework that is destroying the church and Christian nations.”
“Take the Jewish diaspora as the model for the Anglo diaspora but never make the mistake that the Jews did and do and mistaking themselves for God.”
Luke: “Are gentiles better off out-sourcing the important things like foreign policy, economic policy, media, culture and entertainment to their social betters, the Jews?”
Andrew cracks up. “Oh sure. What could possibly go wrong?”
Luke: “Believe me. You can trust us. We only have your best interests at heart.”
Andrew: “It’s not hard to get people on the Alt Right to distinguish between friends and enemies, but Christians, it is pathetic. Not just Jews are the enemy… You can possibly discuss Muslims or blacks with your average churchgoer. That’s fairly safe. A Christian can still pride himself on being realistic and not so dumb that he can’t recognize an enemy anywhere.”
Luke: “Without Jews, Australia would still be white and boring Anglo-Saxons would be running things. Jews bring diversity, immigration, multiculturalism, facitonalism, all these exciting things to Australia and you have no gratitude.”
Andrew: “I remember when I was first trying to get a job down here and I ran into a former history professor of mine in 1974 and I said I was thinking about getting a job in Australia and he said, ‘Ha! The White Australia Policy! What a joke!’ I thought the White Australia Policy sounded good… I took it for granted when I came here that the White Australia Policy was an essential survival mechanism.”
“I loved American history because American historians could write so well and they could make history so interesting. It was only later that I became conscious… I look at my library and the number of Jews I have as authors on American history is astounding. And their particular spin on American history. Once you become aware of the common feature that they all share, their Jewish identity, the Jewish spin becomes more comprehensible.”
Luke: “Isn’t American history too important to be left to Americans? Don’t you gentiles need Jews to interpret it for you or you gentiles will get all these crazy ideas about sovereignty for your own countries and that gentiles have group interests and that Anglo-Saxons have distinct group interests. I think it is dangerous for you guys to publish your own books.”
“I don’t see what’s in it for you to have non-Anglos in your country?”
Andrew: “Yep.”
“How are we ever going to get back to [Anglo countries]?”
“I don’t think of myself as a gentile. In a world with no Jews, there are no gentiles… You can make all the slurs you want about gentiles… Get rid of all this Judeo-Christian nonsense. Judaism is not the father of Christianity. ‘Judaism’ only existed as a rare usage in the first and second century before Christ… That ancient Israelite religion was superceded by Christianity. Judaism is a product of the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud, which are younger than Christianity.”
“You spend a lot of time studying Torah. From a Christian point of view, modern Jews have less claim to Torah than the Church.”
Luke: “Half of Jews are literate in Hebrew, while only one in 10,000 Christians is. So it is hard for Christians to have a claim on the Hebrew scriptures when they can’t read the Hebrew scriptures [in Hebrew].”
“To have this kind of conversation, the odds are about one in three that you’d have to have it with a Jew.”
Andrew laughs. “Yes. I hate to say inter-faith dialogue.”
Luke: “Inter-faith dialogue is how Jews cut the balls off Christianity.”
Andrew: “That’s true. That’s why I hate the concept.”
“Inter-faith rivalry. I find it interesting to hear you discuss these issues with [Kevin] MacDonald and Andrew Joyce because you both share this frame of reference that it is all about ethnic competition and resource rivalry, while avoiding on both sides the kind of theological thing that makes the whole thing far far more important. Then it becomes not just an abstract issue of resource competition but a competition between good and evil, between the God-affirmers and the God-deniers. It’s not easy to see how that can be a dialogue rather a war.”
Luke: “Because from a Jewish perspective, you [Christians] are a bunch of idolaters.”
Andrew: “Exactly.”
Luke: “From a Christian perspective, Jews are the synagogue of Satan.”
Andrew: “The traditional Christian perspective. The only way you can have a proper dialogue is to draw boundaries. Then we can negotiate on an equal footing. But as long as you guys have convinced us that you are our big brothers, we’re sunk.”
Luke: “We know what’s best for you, that you give up your exclusive claims to divine truth and accept that you are an inferior, watered down version of Judaism.”
Andrew: “Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Freud, consumed by all of these unconscious desires to screw our mothers. I get it.”
“I quite enjoyed this conversation. I have to say the best theological discussion in the last few years.”
Luke: “You’ve got to hand it to the Orthodox Jews.”
Andrew: “Maybe you are our big brothers after all.”
