Debating The JQ With Age Of Treason Blogger

Transcript.

From the Youtube comments:

* Quite possibly the best live stream on your channel that I was a part of! It is a weird analogy but if Dirty Harry were ever to take up the ‘JQ’ it would have looked like that.

* Luke Ford. I don’t like kissing ass but hats off for one of the most engrossing conversations I’ve heard in a long time and it’s down to both AOT and you. Seriously, excellent.

* I don’t know Luke’s intent, but I am afraid the effect of all the anti-jew alt-righters is to simply turn off most people. I think more basic education of the predicament white people needs to be done before jumping into jew hatred. We need smarter spokespeople.

* One thing your guest fails to consider, however, is the legitimacy of racial minorities wishing to change their appearance due to insecurity/sexual/personal reasons within the West. See: black women straightening hair & wearing weaves, Armenian & Persian nose-jobs, etc. Attempting to “confuse the goyim” (Western majority) in these instances may lead to a more favourable outcome in one’s own personal lives.

* Best interview you’ve done Tan, so congratulations! That Ford was somewhat antagonistic towards you, really brought out a sharpness in you that added impact to your no-nonsense style. (Posted at AOT)

* This is a fascinating interview by Luke Ford on YouTube with Tanstaafl (Age of Treason) made earlier today, on the Jewish Question. Absolutely riveting 2 hours and about as revealing and informative (as well as hardcore) as you can get on the net. Beats his recent vids with Enoch and Spencer hands down. (Irish Savant)

* This part around 45 mins. where AOT claims that Cofnas throws ad hominems and called MacDonald a bad person is pathetic. So Cofnas puts some nouns, verbs and modifiers in his sentences and legitimately points out what he believes to be cherry picking methods, and deconstructs KMac’s work w/ a thoughtful essay and that’s all this AOT and also KMac, who’s also acting like a wounded lamb claiming ad hom, really have to support byway of examples? It’s impossible to take people like this seriously. I listen to some of this, thinking someone might have some really good evidence for the JQ that will throw me back on my haunches to think and study, but these are the most whingey arguments I’ve yet heard.

It’s all well and good to point out how many jews are ridiculously thin skinned and screech anti semetism if you mention them in any context, which can be fair enough, because some do exactly that. To then turn around and be even more thin skinned yet, is the height of ironic hypocrisy, also pretty amusing. You were right to call him out explicitly for it, or attempt to, Luke, yet it went over his head like an ugly Christmas sweater after the obligatory party.

* Dear Mr. Ford, you are doing some tremendous work and are to be commended. The standards you endeavour to hold yourself to and your honesty is remarkable especially given the problems you have had in the past. You seemed genuinely taken aback by AOT’s stance. Whites do indeed have agency and thus are not entirely blameless for their current predicament. And it would appear that AOT’S disdain for Jewry has somewhat compromised his argument. But his animus is almost pedestrian in comparison to many who hold their rage in check. Andy Warski is a stoner who stumbled across a cash cow with his ‘Bloodsport’ platform but your contribution is far more impressive. I am truly happy that you are earning a good wage and seem to be in a good place. I will never fully comprehend your motivation but I truly appreciate your candour and sense of humour. I think you understand that Jews, like Whites are their own worst enemy. Keep well and keep doing what you are doing.

* i had a very unique youtube experience when i heard you thank him for his honesty in regards to jew deaths in the holocaust. Difficult to describe but the moment really stood out to me.

* Age of Treason uses a corruption of Occam’s Razor here. Occam’s Razor essentially states that the simplest explanation is also the likeliest. Age suggests it applies to Jews and the West, with Jews being the most central component of the West’s decline. However, this requires that Jews indeed be the simplest explanatory variable, which it has yet to be empirically proven that they are. The fact that the Jews are a single explanatory variable doesn’t suggest they are simplest, nor the most extensive.

To demonstrate, liberals think that because environment is a highly recurrent factor in a person’s development, it must therefore be the most significant. Occam’s Razor can be said to refute this notion because the acceptance of environment as the single most important factor in a person’s development requires incalculably complex explanations of said person’s life outcome. Something simpler, such as intelligence, has far more predictive power. Similarly, the hypothesis that Jews are the central factor requires overly elaborate explanations of their influence.

I am NOT suggesting Jews are irrelevant. Simply that they’re not the core node of all the West’s problems.

1:02:45 By his own admission, Age does not argue in good faith here. I found Erik “everything bad about the world is jews” Striker’s interview more compelling than this one.

There absolutely IS a legitimate way to approach the JQ, and this guy makes a total mockery of it.

This guy is totally unhinged. I honestly don’t see the point in debating people like him. He says from the outset he is going to assume ill intent on your part and dismiss everything you say cause you’re a jew. I don’t understand why luke would invite this sadistic piece of crap back on.

JamesR emails:

I used to read Laurence Auster, too (I was a “James R” in the comments).
Age of Treason (and he’s not the only one who says words to this affect) said “most of the time it’s true that Jews have a role in what is going on” which is true as stated, but they cash that out as “The Jews.”

I think this is the main fallacy at the heart of the matter. Even at my most “JQish” I never could grasp the hivemindization that people who obsess about “the JQ” seem to have. When asked about it they will withdraw from that (“of course I’m not saying all Jews, that’s a straw man. Nobody thinks that.”) – but this is just motte-and-bailey argumentation. Because you are right, they never do treat Goyish involvement in the same movements in the same way.

(Even when I mention the postmil stuff, it’s certainly not a hive mind. Rather the way to see a lot of these things is not at all genetic. People who hold the same underlaying premises will just naturally tend to end up reaching the same positions. Game Theory is a very flawed perspective, but on the other hand the concepts of Shelling Points and Nash Equilibrium are illustrative. Adaptive convergence then can have the appearance of conspiratorial thinking. But there is nothing specifically Jewish about this type of thing).

It is the extremely frustrating element of all of this, even if I do end up mostly (and very sadly) agreeing that right now we would be much better off without Jewish influence in any opinion-forming institutions. *But *and* *also* I just want to lustrate our own elites. Taking the Jewish element out but leaving the Goyish transnationalists in place would be accepting the poz (pozion). Of course, all the JQ obsessives will argue they want those people out, too. But they don’t see that element in the correct light, and they certainly don’t obsess about them. I, with you, simply can’t see how we explain, say, Sweden as “the result of a Jewish plot and we have to remove the Jewish influence and then of course all those Goys who were infected by Jews and are acting as their agents.”

It’s not “a Jewish Plot.” It’s adaptive convergence by people who share similar (non-Jewish) world-views, who then – don’t tell anyone this or they’ll think this vindicates KMac (though it does not, since it’s not specific to semites) – end up with an “as-if conspiracy.” But it’s simply the result of (a) reaching the same conclusions over time that are consistent with certain explicit premises (when all the other premises that kept things at bay for a time were implicit) and (b) iteration over time in “wanting a collegial environment” (see academe).

They also act as if there is a hive element to Jewdaism whereby some individual cells are “assigned” to take on certain roles (“of course there are some Jewish people in the anti-immigration thing. That’s how Jews work! That’s crypsis!”) – again, though, if confronted about this aspect explicitly, they’d withdraw from that hill. But then what are we left in (“of course we don’t believe all Jews meet in a room and assign roles to each other while rubbing their hands together” and “of course we don’t believe they have some kind of hive mind where some, like drones in an ant colony, know that they are individually to do x while the others do y z n and q” – well, then how does it work? Fact is, it doesn’t, and the smart ones just start rolling their eyes and mocking at this point, like they’re Daily Show host-cretins, since they really don’t have a mechanism here for how it works).

Age of Treason: The Culture of Critique Cries Out in Pain as it Strikes MacDonald

Age of Treason: Talking With Luke Ford

Kevin MacDonald’s response to Nathan Cofnas with comments by Cofnas.

Jonny Anomaly writes:

On the alt-right, it has become fashionable over the last few years to recycle a trope from 1930s Germany: “The Jewish Question” (to which the Holocaust was supposed to be “The Final Solution”). The contemporary version of the question concerns why Jews have so much influence in cognitively demanding occupations, including science, medicine, law, and politics. Although the “JQ” (as alt-righters call it) has a mundane answer, many subscribe to elaborate theories to account for the fact that most Jews don’t conform to the stereotype alt-righters expect them to.

For example, when a scholar documents the fact that 4 out of the 10 speakers at an inaugural white nationalist conference were Jewish, along with a vast array of other evidence that conflicts with alt-right dogma, the predictable response by people in the grip of an ideology is that Jews do this to create a smokescreen: it provides cover for all of the other Jews who plot against white nationalists.

To take a related example, many alt-righters blame the Iraq war on Jews. Rather than focus on the fact that the architects of the Iraq War who had the most political power were not Jewish – President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, John Bolton, Colin Powell, and most members of Congress – alt-righters focus on those Presidential advisers who were Jewish – Paul Wolfowitz, for instance. Similarly, rather than attributing responsibility to Swedish and German leaders for encouraging the mass migration of Africans and Arabs into Europe over the past few years, many alt-righters find a way to blame Jews who barely exist in those countries, and who are not in positions of political power…

Neither the “Jews cause all my problems” claim nor the “racial/gender oppression is everywhere” claim is a literal conspiracy theory. Most people who buy into them don’t think Jews or white men (respectively) secretly meet in smoke-filled rooms and devise sophisticated strategies for dominating the world. Instead, these theories resemble traditional conspiracy theories in sealing themselves off from any possible counterevidence.

Kevin MacDonald joined me on my Youtube channel Tuesday night (Nathan Cofnas enters an hour after Kevin leaves and here is Nathan’s rebuttal to Kevin’s rebuttal).

Nathan Cofnas responds to Kevin MacDonald(Quillette): “Just read it. Pretty much what I expected.”

About Luke Ford

I've written five books (see Amazon.com). My work has been followed by the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and 60 Minutes. I teach Alexander Technique in Beverly Hills (Alexander90210.com).
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