On Friday, Feb. 5, 2010, I spoke with construction guru Mike Foreman of ConstructionGuru.com about tainted drywall that’s causing thousands of people (mainly in Florida) serious health problems:
Luke: ‘What is Chinese drywall?’
Mike: ‘It’s a gypsum-based product commonly known as drywall. It’s manufactured under a process that allows it to meet an ASTM 1396 standard.
‘Chinese drywall is a product manufactured in China with contaminants in it that are out-gassing different gases such as hydrogen sulfide, carbonal sulfide, etc. It’s (out gassing vapors) eating up copper components and affecting galvanized components. There are also boards sold in the United States as though they were made in the United States under a different label. You can’t always say that this contaminated drywall is Chinese drywall. That term has been abused. I’m not fond of all the problems we’re having from products sent to us from China but in this case the bulk of tainted and corrosive drywall boards are coming from China, but not all of it. I prefer the terms ‘tainted’ or ‘corrosive’ drywall rather than ‘Chinese drywall.”
Luke: ‘When did this tainted drywall become a big deal?’
Mike: ‘It became apparent to me in August of 2008 when I started getting phone calls from lawyers and clients. I’m a forensic construction consultant. We specialize in construction issues.
‘It peaked my interest after I analyzed about 25 houses. I was opening up the air conditioning units and scratching my head and thinking, ‘I can’t believe this developer is installing used units.’ That’s how bad they looked. They looked 16-18 years old. According to the owner, they were 12-24 months old. I checked the equipment model and serial numbers and sure enough, it was 18-24 months old.
‘By the end of 2008, I had analyzed about 100 homes and tried to figure out what the common element was. I finally realized that the drywall was the only thing that was common in the houses. That’s when I started doing a lot of research.’
Luke: ‘How does one know if one is using this tainted form of drywall?’
Mike: ‘It shows itself on the components and equipment with-in the structure. My company has a proprietary protocol that we’ve perfected. It’s an NDE ‘ non-destructive examination. The easiest way for a home owner to start checking the structure is the coil unit of the air conditioning system. It should be copper or have a green patina. It should have little if any rust on the galvanized components. If what they think should be copper is black, or has a blistered or textured surface, they’re infected.’
Luke: ‘How serious a health threat is this tainted drywall?’
Mike: ‘My company put out a factual health data sheet March 2009 on our web site (constructionguru.com). Everybody wants to reference different guidelines. We’re in a residential environment. If you start talking to me about OSHA and their PELs (permissible exposure levels), it doesn’t apply because that’s workplace, where you have a TWA (time weighted average). How long have you been exposed? When you talk about PELs for residential, there are no levels established or validated research, to-date. Nobody has done any studies.
‘The average housewife spends far more than 40 hours a week in the house. Most women are in the house 12-18 hours a day, seven days a week, that equals over 84 – 126 hours per week. That can obviously and easily run up to three times the acceptable exposure levels based on OSHA Guidelines.
‘The EPA Standards or Guidelines do not apply to it either. They have no documentation on it. When the “HOT POTATO” or corrosive drywall was passed around these various agencies, it ended up with the Consumer Products Safety Commission (CPSC).
‘A lot of people are trying to sell expensive equipment to diagnose corrosive drywall’ The CPSC has been finding that a lot of it lacks definitive answers and doesn’t work. The CPSC has recently (last week) come out with an NDE protocol, which is similar to the protocol my company has implemented and used since January 2009. We sent our protocol to them (CPSC) to help them elaborate on their protocol.’
Luke: ‘What are the health effects of this tainted drywall?’
Mike reads me off a long list (refer to “Factual Health Data Sheet” from our web site constructionguru.com). ‘Nobody knows. These are short-term effects. Once you move out of the house, within 30, 60 or 90 days, you progressively get back to a normal life. They (chemicals) get out of your system. No one knows the long-term health effects. That will take a lot of testing, research, and validating documentation. I expect it (findings) will be something similar to asbestos.
‘I tell my clients, if you can afford, take a two-or-three week vacation. Go some place and keep a log on how you feel. Notice what is different. Notice if your energy level goes up. Notice if you’re not having irritated eyes. Your nose is not bothering you. You’re not having the wheezing and the shortness of breath. When you move back into the house, tell me what happens.
‘Consistently, they come back from their vacations energized, positive and clear-thinking. Within a few days of being back in the house, their symptoms return and they realize the difference. Most of them move out permanently.’
Luke: ‘How expensive is it to get rid of this tainted drywall?’
Mike: ‘The original protocols (by others) didn’t work. One company in the testing business is promoting a lot of additional testing. We don’t believe in that. You can’t cost effectively test a house by testing drywall samples.
‘It’s expensive to fix this problem. You have to take the major bulk of construction components and appliances, not to mention the occupants personal property and furniture out of a house and it has to be treated.
‘There are multiple types of construction. In Florida, we have concrete block and wood frame with a little bit of metal stud. In California, you have a lot of wood with metal studs. In Virginia, you have a combination of wood studs and metal. You have different veneer exteriors on all these different types of building materials. You have to have a separate protocol for each type of structure.
‘Once the structure is “demo’d and preped, there’s a treatment and a time-frame and testing cycle we do to confirm and validate. Then we cut the contractor loose to start putting the house back together. Square foot costs can range from $30 to $100 per square foot, depending on the size of the house, the number type and level of finishes, and what has to be removed demo’d to make it right. A 1,000 square foot house might cost $40,000 to take care of the problem. The average consumer residence or structure is in the $60 per square foot range. My competitors systems are significantly more.’
Luke: ‘Why are the so-called experts so often wrong when it comes to discussing Chinese drywall?’
Mike: ‘There are no degrees for tainted drywall. It’s not something that’s taught in schools, colleges, or even trade schools. It’s so new that there is no formal education on it. Many of my compadres on this are getting an education on it from me and other guys in the field. We have a lot of home inspectors who are out there who have enough information and knowledge to be dangerous. I was the guest speaker to the 2009 local ASHI (American Society of Home Inspectors) meeting in Sarasota, Florida. They had no clue about what was going on. I gave them enough information for them to be dangerous. They jumped on the bandwagon to make it an income stream for them. I have no problem with people making money but you have to know what you’re diagnosing. Chlorine vapors will give you a different diagnosis that looks similar to this. If you open up the air conditioning unit and it looks black but is really dark grey, and you have no other symptoms in the house, that doesn’t mean you have it, even though home inspectors were diagnosing it that way because the coils were black or grey or discolored. We found consistently that these homes were misdiagnosed until the real estate community got involved. You and I both know that you don’t want to come between a realtor and his or her commission check. They don’t get paid until the job closes. These home inspectors were queering their deals and giving a bad diagnosis and people (consultants / experts) like me were having to come in and clean the mess up. It got to the point where the home inspectors were no longer trusted.
‘Not every house is 100% tainted or corrosive drywall. You could have ten boards in the house and it would take about 24 months to show up.
‘If you’ve got a new house 24-36 months old, and you haven’t developed any symptoms, you’re going to be diagnosed safe. You’re not infected. You’re going to notice it with-in 12-24 months after occupancy, and no more than 36 months after occupancy, whether it be one board or 50 boards.’
Luke: ‘How long has this tainted drywall been coming into the United States?’
Mike: ‘I’ve found it installed as early as 2001.’
Luke: ‘What else should people know about this?’
Mike: ‘You need to talk to your doctor if you start having symptoms.
‘Not all of the tainted drywall is out-gassing a vapor you can smell or at detectable levels. Just because your house doesn’t smell, does not mean you don’t have it.
‘If you start developing symptoms that you never had before, that’s your first red flag that something is not right.
‘With the efficient air-tight houses we’ve created, created over the last several years, we’re seeing more of these types of problems. You don’t have the air exchange you’d have in a house 20 years ago that you and I would say was very poor as far as energy efficiency.
‘If you’ve got the problem, move aggressively on it.
‘The government has been slow to move on this. The government wants to come up with a one-size-fits-all solution. They are finding out rapidly that just isn’t going to work. With all the variables, there’s not going to be such a solution in the near future. They’re going to have to start regionalizing corrective protocols and specifying different situations. It’s going to get complicated.
‘We live in the best possible government in the world, but if you are waiting on the government to do something about this, it’s going to be a long time coming. The court system is going through motions where they are trying to sue Chinese manufacturers.
‘The lawyers are going after Chinese companies such as Taishan. That company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Chinese government. If you think you are going to prevail in a court in the United States and get a judgment and be able to invoke it on a Chinese company and collect money on the judgement in the near future, I wish you luck, but I think you need to go see a therapist and have a serious talk with them about your actions. I just don’t see it happening.
‘I’ve talked to numerous attorneys involved in this class action and they’re probably going to get a settlement from a company named Knauf, which manufactures in three different facilities in China. The most popular one is Knauf -Tianjin. That company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of a German company Knauf, who manufactures numerous construction materials, and types of construction products.
‘I know that in class-action lawsuits such as these, the consumer never gets what’s necessary to be whole. The lawyers make a lot of money.
‘My company fights for consumers. We’re consumer advocates. I anticipate that consumers will get about 10% of what it costs to actually fix the problem. That’s what bothers me about this and other class actions. The consumer’s getting hung out to dry. It’s not whether you are right or wrong in our court system. It’s how much money you have and the lawyer you’ve hired.
‘If you’ve got a problem, call me. We travel all over the United States. My website is constructionguru.com or ForemanandAssociates.com. We’ll try to give you good directions (advice) and try to help you from being taken advantage of any further. They’re (homeowners) already victims. I don’t want them to be victimized more by the charlatans out there.
‘There’s a company out there that will tent your house and pump it full of chlorine deoxide, which is similar to what they use when they kill your termites. The problem is that it does not penetrate through the drywall and get into the backside or wall cavity. They wanted my firm to endorse their product and I couldn’t because I couldn’t get any positive results from it.
‘I don’t know how many people I’ve had who’ve told me they can paint the walls and it solves the problem. Another company has an ozonator that changes the air molecules and supposedly solves your problem. It’s just a cover-up. It’s like putting a lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig, or perfume on a person who has not showered for a month, the smell is still their, just covered-up. It will cover it up for a time, but as soon as you take the good fragrance away, it’s going to come back.
‘We’ve been through hell and back with these get-rich-quick schemes and snake-oil salesman. We’ve got this snake oil and it can do this and that.
‘You’re going to hear the term ‘defective’ when we talk about tainted drywall. It is not defective. It may be tainted, but it is not defective. The percentage of tainted material in the board that is causing the problem is 1-3%, and to-date “ALL” drywall or gypsum board meets ASTM 1396 Standards.
‘China does not have one mine that supplies “ALL” the manufacturers or factories day after day. No mines materials are consistent and no mines materials are identical. You have different components coming out mixed with the gypsum. There are no less than 20 manufacturing processes on how to make gypsum or drywall boards. Some of the problems are based on the drywall manufacturing processes and recycled water being used in those processes. There were problems years ago with mold and mildew. That had to do with the reprocessed water not being properly treated and cleaned and it didn’t take but a little bit of moisture and boom, the drywall or gypsum board started molding up. The mold was already there, it just got activated by a little bit of moisture, providing the food source for activation or growth.
‘When you start talking to me about one size fits all, I’m looking at three major components that are never going to allow that to happen. One ‘ the mined components are all different. Two ‘ the manufacturing processes are all different. Three ‘ you don’t have one type of construction. You have multiple types of construction, multiple types of building materials, multiple building envelopes.’
Chinese-made drywall has been alleged to have high levels of sulfur that can cause corrosion on piping and wiring. Those with the tainted drywall also have reported health concerns such as upper respiratory issues and nosebleeds.
…Last year, construction consultant Michael Foreman of Foreman & Associates began hosting educational seminars to help real estate agents in the area better understand the problem.
The seminars address common signs of corrosion in homes with tainted drywall, the importance of homeowners getting multiple drywall analysis conducted and what a proper analysis to detect Chinese drywall entails.
‘We’re educating the Realtors because they’re the first line of defense or the first line of contact to the client,’ Foreman said. ‘We’re trying to make them understand the details that need to be looked at.’
Foreman & Associates, which specializes in Chinese drywall analysis, hosted at least six seminars last year, the most recent about two months ago in which 120 agents from the Sarasota Association of Realtors attended.
The firm explains to Realtors its home analysis starts with a questionnaire for the previous homeowners that looks for potential health issues. Then the firm inspects the home’s copper piping and components, electrical wiring and outlets and takes interior and exterior wall readings to examine for Chinese drywall.
Here are some related articles:
11/26/09 – The Epoch Times – Hazards of Chinese Drywall Confirmed by U.S. Study
11/23/09 – Scripps News – Government approves screening test for Chinese drywall
9/24/09 – Herald Tribune – Senators see potential problem with formaldehyde in homes
9/23/09 – Desert Sun – Drywall suspect in woman’s woe
9/18/09 – Herald Tribune – In a desert town’s walls, an even deeper mystery
5/17/09 – Bradenton Herald – Theyve got it: Chinese drywall
5/15/09 – Angie’s List – Chinese drywall crisis spreading across U.S.
5/11/09 – Florida Association of Realtors – Chinese Drywall Issue Goes to the U.S. House
4/16/09 – The Epoch Tines – Tainted Chinese Drywall Contaminating U.S. Homes
4/11/09 – Fox News – Chinese Drywall Poses Potential Risks to American Homeowners, Apartment Dwellers
4/11/09 – FOX 13 NEWS – Legislation targets Chinese drywall
3/29/09 – Bradenton Herald – Law firms lining up to attract drywall clients
3/18/09 – CNN – Chinese-made drywall ruining homes, owners say
3/14/09 – Palm Beach Post – Builders removing Chinese drywall from two Port St. Lucie developments
3/13/09 – South Florida Business Journal – Manufacturer says drywall is ‘fume free’
3/13/09 – Palm Beach Post – Builders removing Chinese drywall from two Port St. Lucie developments
3/7/09 – Herald Tribune – Drywall worries multiply
3/03/09 – ABC – Are health concerns tied to Chinese drywall?
2/25/09 – Bradenton Herald – States tainted drywall list grows
2/23/09 – NPR – Scope Widens In Tainted Chinese Drywall Cases In Florida
2/18/09 – Herald Tribune – Scope widens in Chinese drywall case
2/10/09 – 7 News – Chinese Drywall
1/30/09 – Bradenton Herald Study – Tainted drywall not a health risk
1/29/09 – Herald Tribune – Builder’s study finds drywall tied to corrosion
1/27/09 – Lakewood Ranch Herald – Drywall lawsuit, more complaints filed
1/23/09 – South Florida Business Journal – More problems with Chinese drywall surface
1/14/09 – ABC 7- Home inspectors learning more about dangerous Chinese drywall
1/13/09 – Herald Tribune – Drywall worries affect Lakewood Ranch homeowner
