{"id":8929,"date":"2009-05-12T15:59:48","date_gmt":"2009-05-12T23:59:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=8929"},"modified":"2009-05-12T16:05:34","modified_gmt":"2009-05-13T00:05:34","slug":"providing-moral-leadership-to-a-kid-at-a-chareidi-yeshiva","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=8929","title":{"rendered":"Providing Moral Leadership To A Kid At A Chareidi Yeshiva"},"content":{"rendered":"

yeshivaboy<\/a>: hey luke, i have a quick question, did you find out about the documentary hypothesis before or after your conversion
\nYourMoralLeader: as a child
\nYourMoralLeader: my dad has a phd in bible
\nyeshivaboy: and you converted anyway
\nYourMoralLeader: yep
\nyeshivaboy: anyway, i wanted to thank you, you have had a major impact on my life
\nyeshivaboy: i read your blog every day
\nyeshivaboy: i became a subscriber to dennis prager and listen to his show every day for months now
\nyeshivaboy: i had never heard him before
\nyeshivaboy: and i started downloading marc shapiro lectures from torah in motion
\nyeshivaboy: so you really believe in orthodox judaism?
\nyeshivaboy: i have a lot of doubts after reading james kugel
\nyeshivaboy: and his ways of reconciling oj with the dh do not really suffice for me
\nYourMoralLeader: there is no way of reconciling
\nYourMoralLeader: you have to live with paradox
\nYourMoralLeader: awesome to hear, thank you
\nyeshivaboy: if i stay frum i will become modern orthodox
\nyeshivaboy: but that’s a big "if"
\nyeshivaboy: frum women here in jerusalem are now wearing burkas, i think you blogged about it once
\nyeshivaboy: i’m doing ok, i’m actually a happy person in real life, i just have a lot of resentment at the whole shidduchim thing
\nyeshivaboy: and i’m basically orthoprax
\nyeshivaboy: but not orthodox anymore
\nyeshivaboy: i wish i still believed what i used to
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah
\nyeshivaboy: i think i will probably stay religious becuz i like the values
\nyeshivaboy: and i like learning torah, and i like the culture
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah
\nyeshivaboy: but i have no motivation to get up an hour and a half early to daven
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah
\nyeshivaboy: i hated doing that even when i believed
\nYourMoralLeader: i prefer study
\nyeshivaboy: yeah, torah study is great
\nyeshivaboy: and niddah sucks big time
\nyeshivaboy: if i could eliminate davening and niddah i would be happy being frum without believing in god at all
\nyeshivaboy: i don’t mind the not having sex for 2-3 weeks a months so much, but not being able to even pass a cup to each other is crazy to me
\nyeshivaboy: and i feel like it makes your relationship colder
\nYourMoralLeader: how you like living in israel?
\nyeshivaboy: it’s ok.  there are wonderful things about it, but i much prefer america.
\nyeshivaboy: it’s tough though because i’m in the chareidi world most of the time
\nyeshivaboy: which is very strict and now especially with my views
\nyeshivaboy: i get into a lot of debates in my kollel.
\nyeshivaboy: if you believe the earth is over 5,000 years old
\nyeshivaboy: you are looked at like you are off the derech
\nyeshivaboy: but i never bring up biblical criticism
\nyeshivaboy: no one has any idea how many doubts i have
\nyeshivaboy: i think a lot of people do
\nyeshivaboy: have doubts
\nyeshivaboy: they are just scared to admit it
\nyeshivaboy: luke, is dennis prager’s lecture on why to believe in god, is that any good?
\nyeshivaboy: he charges a lot for 35 minute shows
\nYourMoralLeader: yes
\nYourMoralLeader: $7 a month not bad
\nyeshivaboy: yeah, the monthly membership is a good price
\nYourMoralLeader: it is only worth discussing BC etc with people who are attuned
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah, get a subscription $50 for a year
\nyeshivaboy: i’ve been subscribed for about 3 months now…it has really changed me a lot so far
\nyeshivaboy: he is such a superb and clear thinker
\nyeshivaboy: i cancelled my medved subscription now
\nyeshivaboy: luke, do you really believe in a divinely inspired torah?
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah
\nYourMoralLeader: but that’s flexible, it could’ve been inspired but put together over centuries through many sources
\nYourMoralLeader: read marc shapiro’s book, The limits of orthodox theology
\nYourMoralLeader: rambam said that the torah moshe received at sinai was divine, but that doesn’t mean that the whole five books were given then
\nyeshivaboy: what does that mean, that they were written later?
\nYourMoralLeader: maybe
\nYourMoralLeader: maybe only 10 commandments given at sinai
\nyeshivaboy: and then the whole oral law thing
\nyeshivaboy: i have learned the goofiest things in the gemara
\nYourMoralLeader: listening to shapiro is great forclarifying this stuff
\nyeshivaboy: yeah i think i need to listen to more of his stuff
\nYourMoralLeader: i listened to every lecture on TIM
\nYourMoralLeader: shapiro lecture
\nyeshivaboy: it’s expensive though, i’ve already spent over 20 bucks on his lectures
\nyeshivaboy: is TIM free?
\nyeshivaboy: oh never mind
\nyeshivaboy: tim is torah in motion
\nyeshivaboy: i was thinking of e-tim or somethign, there was some thing i saw on there that was free if you listen live
\nyeshivaboy: otherwise it’s like 3.99 a lecture
\nYourMoralLeader: go through hirhurim get a free code and it is all free
\nYourMoralLeader: i paid not a penny
\nyeshivaboy: thanks i didn’t know you could do that
\nyeshivaboy: but according to what you said, like if only 10 commandments were given, why can’t i be a jew like dennis prager
\nyeshivaboy: and not follow rabbinical enactments
\nYourMoralLeader: it depends if you want to be part of a high commitment community or not
\nYourMoralLeader: it is a social decision, not a theological one for me
\nYourMoralLeader: it’s like belonging to a club with some absurd rules<\/p>\n

yeshivaboy: i hope you don’t mind if i ask you becuz i am totally not judging you, but would you want to hold by niddah laws?
\nYourMoralLeader: i’d work it out with my wife
\nYourMoralLeader: i believe what you do in private is diff from public
\nYourMoralLeader: in private, a lot more latitude
\nYourMoralLeader: but i wouldn’t go into a mcdonalds in my hood etc
\nyeshivaboy: that’s kind of where i think i’m holding
\nyeshivaboy: but it must be hard to work out with your wife that you both hold the same way on those issues
\nyeshivaboy: and then also the issue of keeping your kids staying religious
\nYourMoralLeader: yeah, it is the way you work things out with your wife that is more important than where you end up in most cases<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

yeshivaboy: hey luke, i have a quick question, did you find out about the documentary hypothesis before or after your conversion YourMoralLeader: as a child YourMoralLeader: my dad has a phd in bible yeshivaboy: and you converted anyway YourMoralLeader: yep … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[598,11494,69,214,18,21,110],"tags":[29761,11970,31833,3182,1132,8890],"class_list":["post-8929","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-haredi","category-james-kugel","category-marc-b-shapiro","category-modern-orthodox","category-orthodoxy","category-personal","category-rabbis","tag-dennis-prager","tag-documentary-hypothesis","tag-james-kugel","tag-marc-shapiro","tag-orthodox-judaism","tag-torah-in-motion"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t