{"id":87430,"date":"2016-02-07T14:11:09","date_gmt":"2016-02-07T22:11:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=87430"},"modified":"2023-09-06T03:57:13","modified_gmt":"2023-09-06T11:57:13","slug":"jayman-the-problem-with-hbd-the-dark-enlightenment-neoreaction-alt-rightism-and-all-that-jazz","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=87430","title":{"rendered":"Jayman: The Problem with HBD, the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, Alt-Rightism, and All That Jazz"},"content":{"rendered":"

Jayman, a Jamaican-America blogger<\/a>, writes<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Courtesy super-commenter “misdreavus<\/a>“, over at West Hunter<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

let me point out that with notably few exceptions, so-called \u201cHBD\u201d (or \u201chuman biodiversity\u201d) is a movement that exists largely within the confines of the internet. This, of course, has done absolutely no favors to its dispersal within society at large, because if technology has taught us anything, it is that the anonymity of the web tends to bring out the crazy and stupid in everyone, Surely there was a time when people actually tried to research<\/i> certain topics before launching a slurry of half-baked and inchoate opinions with an audacious (and entirely unwarranted) degree of self-confidence \u2014 not so much because people were any better informed in yesteryear than they are today, but because certain structural barriers posed an impediment to the crazy and incompetent expressing their ideas in lofty places. Now that (most of) these have been safely dismantled, we\u2019ve got nutters from Stormfront sparring t\u00eate\u2013\u00e0\u2013t\u00eate<\/i> with anthropology professors over elementary facts that anybody can look up in a linguistics textbook. How splendid is that.<\/p>\n

This is a most sudden and hilarious change of affairs. Thanks to the almighty web, we\u2019ve got \u201cwhite genocide\u201d nutters, \u201cred pillers\u201d, devotees of Asatru, Sedevacantists, keyboard warriors, \u201cneo-reactionaries\u201d, social justice warriors, 4chan experts, and bedlamites of every stripe and fashion littering the comments section of every blog about human biodiversity<\/strong>. [JayMan: and we sure do!] They\u2019re not only shockingly ill-mannered and coarse, but many of them have yet to absorb all of the facts about \u201cHBD\u201d that have been settled science for several decades \u2014 you try explaining to any of these \u201cDark Enlightenment\u201d lunatics that single mothers are not<\/i> responsible for adverse outcomes in bastard children, as is proven by a wealth of longitudinal adoption studies.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I can\u2019t decide whether or not I like it at all, for the life of me \u2014 but it\u2019s here to stay!<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

\u201cnot responsible\u201d as in single parenting is not responsible for X, Y, etc.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Amen brother! But there’s more. He continues<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Also, regarding mass immigration, be careful where you draw your lines.<\/p>\n

The whole point of Charles Murray\u2019s Human Acccomplishment<\/i> is not just that Europeans have accomplished a lot more than other races over the past five hundred years, but that certain subgroups within western Europe proper<\/i> have proven themselves to be vastly more creative than the others. Just what exactly have the Portuguese contributed to physics recently? Average IQ varies considerably among white European populations, roughly 10-12 points from the highest to the lowest, from the highest to the lowest, as does a host of other psychological dimensions such as conscientiousness, social trust, empathy, etc.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\"wvs-culture-map\"<\/a><\/p>\n

From the World Values Survey<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\"Europe<\/a><\/p>\n

Corruption Perceptions Index 2013, Transparency International<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

He continues:<\/p>\n

\n

There is no such thing as a singular \u201cwhite\u201d race, and there never has been \u2014 selective pressures operate a lot faster than people often imagine, and so there goes Duchesne\u2019s crackpot Indo-European theory. Yes, human races do exist, but selection pressures are different everywhere<\/i> in the world, not just on opposite sides of a continental divide. The high accomplishments of Brunelleschi, Marconi, and da Vinci are hardly reflective of the creativity of the typical lazzarone<\/i> in the mezzogiorno<\/i>, any more than it is possible to extrapolate directly from sharpeis to lhasa apsos.<\/p>\n

There are rational and sensible reasons to advocate for a strict moratorium on immigration to every<\/i> developed nation (not just Europe and the Anglosphere), but if you seriously want to turn back the clock at this point, why don\u2019t we be consistent here and just kick out every single Sicilian, Irishman, or eastern Slav from the United States, considering the poorer intellectual achievement of these European populations. After all, who are they to sap the creative juices of the master race?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Thank you brother!<\/p>\n

I don’t know if there’s just something in the air or what, but “misdreavus” managed to get out everything that has been really irking me all day long. (And believe me, I’m not the only one who felt that way, just today even!) We’ve seen “misdreavus” unload on the nutty garbage that percolates in this sphere before. One time recently was against health\/obesity rubbish<\/a> that is largely taken as gospel. Look, I understand that for the reasons stated above, we are going to have crazies and craziness in the HBD-sphere. And many of the more prominent individuals among these do offer quite a bit of insight, at times. Nevertheless, it often feels like I am doing double duty not just counteracting the standard PC dogma, but addressing the right-wing crazy that rails against it (who are emboldened by the wrongness of the PC liberals to believe that all of their fanciful musing is correct). This in addition to the detestable outright White supremacists in this space (or whatever you want to call yourselves \u2013 if you feel comfortable in KKK robes or wearing a Nazi uniform, you fit the mold), who, really, aren’t any more desirable to have around than, say Islamic radicals.<\/p>\n

If the facts about heritable human differences are to be ever taken seriously, it needs to be extricated from such utter nonsense, as well as from the mean-spirited sentiment.<\/p>\n

COMMENTS:<\/p>\n

* HBD tells us that British accomplishment is, to a significant degree, the result of British genes. Similarly, Nigerian, Pakistani and Polish accomplishments (or lack there of) are, to a significant degree, the result of their respective genes. (Not knocking the Poles here, just sayin\u2019.)<\/p>\n

So, if you want the kind of accomplishments that Britain produced in the past to keep occurring (and most people do), then the ongoing demographic replacement of the British population should strike you as a very, very bad thing.<\/p>\n

So, assuming you like technological progress and stuff like that, HBD does basically say \u201cThere are rational and sensible reasons to advocate for a strict moratorium on immigration to every developed nation (not just Europe and the Anglosphere),\u201d misdreavus said it, I believe it.<\/p>\n

And if you support a strict moratorium on immigration, your political views on this topic are as extreme or more extreme than the National Front. And let\u2019s not kid ourselves, this is the topic that people are going to judge you by, not your views on petty issues like social welfare or gay marriage.<\/p>\n

So, people who believe what misdreavus believes about immigration are already plenty Nazi enough to get a beating from the antifa.<\/p>\n

* Telling immoral people to just be more moral without changing the environmental conditions that allow them to produce more children than moral folks simply doesn\u2019t work. The immoral folks will just keep ignoring you. Bill Cosby has been trying this tactic for decades, and it hasn\u2019t worked.<\/p>\n

I highly doubt cultural condemnation was ever the driving force preventing large scale single motherhood; rather, the abysmal survival rates for unwanted and unplanned children and high death rates for the poor in general simply prevented these kids from existing and bad planning genes from getting passed on.<\/p>\n

If you want to change that, then you have to change the environment in which homeless people feel more confident about bringing children into the world than Harvard grads, not yell at people about how they ought to get married. Even when single mothers do try to get married, they marry the men they find attractive, which doesn\u2019t actually change the genetic situation. Even if you could force them to marry IT guys, or the deadbeats to marry fat women with nice personalities, these still wouldn\u2019t be \u201cstable two parent homes\u201d because the dumb people in the equation are not capable of long-term stability.<\/p>\n

* I don\u2019t understand why you think that HBD is needed to justify an ethnostate; to my mind, you merely need an ethnos and a willingness to affirm the principle of national self determination. I don\u2019t recall the Southern Sudanese calling upon HBD to justify their succession; why would the situation be any different for e.g., White nationalists? That said, to some extent, one could draw upon HBD. For example, when arguing against race based immigration policies, you state: \u201cwhy don\u2019t we be consistent here and just kick out every single Sicilian\u2026\u201d. <\/p>\n

Your reasoning: since selective immigration must be justified based on capacity, and since many of a given race are less capable than many of another, one can not justify an exclusively race based policy. But, of course, bioethnonationalists don\u2019t draw upon human capital -HBD, for justification, they draw upon ethnic genetic interest \u2013HBD; they, seeing a nation as an extended biological family, propose to discriminate on the basis of overall genetic relatedness. In doing so, when preferring a low capital Sicilian to a high capital Korean, they exhibit no inconsistency. <\/p>\n

Now, I don\u2019t recall what the whole-genome pairwise relations were, but I suspect that Europeans tend to form a nested cluster within the Caucasoid race (which includes indigenous Europeans, many Central\/South Asians, North Africans, and Middles Easterners) and that this region of genetic space forms the basis of the \u201cwhite race\u201d, biologically understood. That is, I suspect that one could carve out of multidimensional genetic space a natural population which loosely overlapped with geographically defined indigenous Europe while excluding many other caucasoid populations. Maybe not. To the extent not then either our bioethnonationalists would need to boot the less related European populations, include the more related non-European (Caucasoid) populations, or take into account other considerations such as culture relatedness. Generally, they do the last. Whatever the case, this is a marginal problem for them \u2014 like Israeli Jews deciding who precisely qualifies as a Jew. <\/p>\n

So, yes, Stormfronters and others can draw upon HBD to some extent when it comes to justifying their proposed ethnostate. Of course HBD can never justify the principle of national self determination. It can just be employed to construct a defense of the idea and ideal of a bioethnos. Now, while I stand in defense of their position, I don\u2019t back it for various, largely selfish, reasons (e.g., I\u2019m a miscegenator). The position is important to defend, though, because it represents a more or less coherent application of genetic interest-HBD, which, itself, represents, more or less, a logical extension of foundational HBD principles (e.g., Hamilton\u2019s rule). <\/p>\n

Also, it\u2019s worth defending because it is one of the core types of applied HBD for which anti-HBD was developed to undermine. Some here might see ethnic-genetic interest-HBD and applications thereof as too dangerous or too problematic \u2014 just as many elsewhere see IQ-HBD. If so, I think that\u2019s a mistake.<\/p>\n

* HBD largely exists outside of conventional moral horizons; and it has not rigorously developed norms. Misdreavus is correct that this situation represents, at very least, a marketing problem; the attempt to draw lines is appreciated \u2014 I could use some guidelines myself; the problem is the manner. HBD is politically neutral; the lines need to be politically neutral. Misdreavus seems to section of the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, and Alt-Rightism; yet these positions are not \u2014 at least from my perspective \u2014 categorically morally problematic, despite being anti-egalitarian; rather, they suffer from the same problem as HBD regarding morales and norms. Generally, lines should be drawn but drawn in the most politically and morally inclusive way palatable; caution should be taken when labeling \u201cnutters\u201d.<\/p>\n

* Jayman and Misdreavus are just trying to create the Cathedral for HBD thinkers. You can wrap it up in judicious morality, you can make it about Us and Them, but at the heart of it, misdreavus was saying man, these people over here need to Shut Up, and Jayman was like, preach it, man! We need to clean things up around here! We can\u2019t have people with the wrong opinions! We need *science*, man!<\/p>\n

But to the extent *this* exists, this thing, whatever it\u2019s called, whatever I have a node on, it is little other than a stand against the notion of the unspeakable. So once you violate that, there\u2019s nothing left.<\/p>\n

* Judith Harris explained this in her book. Parental treatment affects the child\u2019s behavior temporarily (so long as the parents are able to physically overbear in the child\u2019s life), and it affects the relationship between parent and child. That\u2019s one reason it\u2019s wise to not be a dick to your kids: they will remember it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Jayman, a Jamaican-America blogger, writes: Courtesy super-commenter “misdreavus“, over at West Hunter: let me point out that with notably few exceptions, so-called \u201cHBD\u201d (or \u201chuman biodiversity\u201d) is a movement that exists largely within the confines of the internet. This, of … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[42686,36],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-87430","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-hbd","category-race"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/87430","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=87430"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/87430\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":151153,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/87430\/revisions\/151153"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=87430"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=87430"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=87430"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}