{"id":55613,"date":"2014-06-10T03:16:49","date_gmt":"2014-06-10T11:16:49","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=55613"},"modified":"2014-06-10T03:18:47","modified_gmt":"2014-06-10T11:18:47","slug":"how-big-of-a-sin-is-it-for-a-jewish-man-to-be-with-a-non-jewish-woman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=55613","title":{"rendered":"How Big Of A Sin Is It For A Jewish Man To Be With A Non-Jewish Woman?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Marc B. Shapiro writes<\/a>:<\/p>\n

The censorship of this responsum can only have one purpose, namely, so that people don\u2019t learn about how some members of R. Stern\u2019s community (the Hungarian hasidic world) are having sexual relations with non-Jewish women.<\/p>\n

What is the remedy for these men who are intimate with non-Jewish women? Repentance, of course. Yet there is a very strange opinion as to how to go about this repentance. R. Solomon Ephraim Luntshitz, in his Keli Yekar[4] to Numbers 19:21, says something which is so \u201cout of the box\u201d that I am shocked that it has not yet been censored from the Mikraot Gedolot. (Yes, I realize that it is just a matter of time.)<\/p>\n

R. Luntshitz is discussing the statement in Yoma 86b: \u201cHow is one proved a repentant sinner? Rav Judah said: If the object which caused his original transgression comes before him on two occasions, and he keeps away from it. Rav Judah indicated: With the same woman, at the same time, in the same place.\u201d In context, this means only what it says, but not that someone should actually put himself in this situation. Yet this is exactly the lesson R. Luntshitz derives.<\/p>\n

He refers to Berakhot 34b, \u201cIn the place where penitents stand even the wholly righteous cannot stand.\u201d R. Luntschitz cites an opinion that the ba\u2019al teshuvah (penitent) of a sexual sin has to put himself in the exact same situation as he was before, that is, to be alone with the very same woman and overcome his inclination. This is not permitted to one who is \u201cwholly righteous\u201d since he is forbidden to put himself in this situation. But the penitent needs to do this in order for his repentance to be complete, and this explains how a wholly righteous one cannot stand where the penitent stands, since the penitent has to put himself in a situation that would be forbidden for the righteous one. R. Luntshitz explains that the very act of repentance, i.e., being alone with the woman, \u201cmakes the pure [the tzaddik] impure and the impure [the sinner] pure.\u201d<\/p>\n

This is a strange passage for any number of reasons, not least of which that the action of being alone with the woman is itself sinful, even if it never leads to any sexual activity. Yet R. Luntshitz tells us that in this case we have an exception, and true repentance requires intentionally putting oneself in the exact same situation one was beforehand and this time overcoming one\u2019s inclination. Of course, there is no guarantee that the person will emerge successfully from this self-imposed test. R. Israel Isserlein reports such an occurrence, where an individual put himself in this situation in order to achieve proper repentance, but ended up sinning again![5] Sefer Hasidim earlier warned against falling into precisely this trap.[6]<\/p>\n

R. Luntschitz\u2019s point is also found in his Olelot Ephraim, vol. 2, no. 228, showing that he was entirely convinced of his position.<\/p>\n

R. Luntschitz was the rabbi of Prague, yet a later incumbent of this position, R. Ezekiel Landau, strongly rejects R. Luntschitz\u2019s point. He acknowledges that many shared R. Luntschitz\u2019s error, which I think is interesting since I can\u2019t imagine anyone having such an opinion today.[7] R. Landau doesn\u2019t tell us who else advocated R. Luntschitz\u2019s view, but R. Mordechai Harris,[8] R. Dovid Yoel Weiss,[9] R. Yaakov Levi,[10] and Nahum Rakover[11] provide sources. Among these sources are R. Joseph ben Judah Loeb Jacob, Rav Yevi (Netanya, 2012), to Psalms 36:3, who quotes the Baal Shem Tov as offering the same approach as R. Luntschitz.<\/p>\n

Jewish men getting together with non-Jewish women is, of course, not a new thing. The Talmud, Sanhedrin 82a, already refers to this possibility with regard to Torah scholars (!), concluding: \u201cIf he is a scholar, he shall have no awakening [i.e., teaching] among the sages and none responding among the disciples.\u201d[12] Avodah Zarah 69b-70a deals with the status of kosher wine on the table when Jewish men are sitting together with a non-Jewish prostitute. Yom Tov Assis, in his article \u201cSexual Behaviour in Mediaeval Hispano-Jewish Society,\u201d[13] discusses the situation in Spain where it was not uncommon for Jews to have non-Jewish mistresses.[14] Avraham Grossman also deals with this matter and his discussion includes other parts of medieval Europe as well.[15]<\/p>\n

In R. Judah ben Asher\u2019s responsa (Zikhron Yehudah, no. 91), we are told about the problem of Jews having sex with their non-Jewish slave girls (and also having impregnating them). A few centuries later, R. David Ibn Zimra testifies that there were men, learned in Torah, who even thought it was permissible for them to have sex with their slaves.[16]<\/p>\n

The fact that the prohibition on occasional sexual relations (\u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d6\u05e0\u05d5\u05ea) with non-Jewish women is only rabbinic[17] no doubt contributed to many not taking it very seriously.[18] <\/p>\n

R. Moses Isserles [19] even mentions the view of the Tur that intermarriage itself (\u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d0\u05d9\u05e9\u05d5\u05ea) is only a rabbinic prohibition.[20] The Bah explains the Tur\u2019s view, Even ha-Ezer 16, as follows, leaving no doubt as to the matter:<\/p>\n

\u05d0\u05d1\u05dc \u05d1\u05e9\u05d0\u05e8 \u05d0\u05d5\u05de\u05d5\u05ea . . . \u05d0\u05d9\u05df \u05d1\u05d4\u05df \u05d0\u05d9\u05e1\u05d5\u05e8 \u05db\u05dc\u05dc \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05ea\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d5\u05d0\u05e4\u05d9\u05dc\u05d5 \u05d1\u05d0 \u05e2\u05dc\u05d9\u05d4\u05df \u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d0\u05d9\u05e9\u05d5\u05ea \u05d0\u05dc\u05d0 \u05d2\u05d6\u05d9\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e8\u05d1\u05e0\u05df.<\/p>\n

This approach, incidentally, could explain how Esther married Ahasuerus, as the prohibition on intermarriage was not yet established.<\/p>\n

Maimonides disagrees with the Tur and assumes that there is a biblical prohibition to marry any non-Jew (\u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d7\u05ea\u05e0\u05d5\u05ea), not simply the seven Canaanite nations. Therefore, he claims that Solomon converted all the women he married.[21] However, R. Raphael Berdugo disagrees, and states that there was no halakhic problem with Solomon marrying these women without converting them.[22] This leads him to discuss the story of Pinhas killing Zimri and the whole concept of kana\u2019in pog\u2019in bo. R. Berdugo explains that kana\u2019in pog\u2019in bo only applies when dealing with sexual relations that are public, promiscuous, and the woman is an idolator.[23]<\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05dc\u05d0 \u05d0\u05de\u05e8\u05d5 \u05e7\u05e0\u05d0\u05d9\u05df \u05e4\u05d5\u05d2\u05e2\u05d9\u05df \u05d1\u05d5 \u05d0\u05dc\u05d0 \u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d4\u05e4\u05e7\u05e8 \u05d5\u05e2\u05d5\u05d1\u05d3\u05ea \u05e2”\u05d6 \u05d5\u05d1\u05e4\u05e8\u05d4\u05e1\u05d9\u05d0.<\/p>\n

According to R. Berdugo, following the Tur, Jews who are married to non-Jews are only violating a rabbinic prohibition. I mention this since I recently met someone who thought that in messianic days intermarried Jews will be subject to kana\u2019in pog\u2019in bo. I originally thought that this was a clear error. If you look at Maimonides\u2019 formulation, Hilkhot Issurei Biah 12:4, you find that contrary to R. Berdugo he indeed includes all non-Jews, not just idolators, as subject to kana\u2019in pog\u2019in bo. (And see his very strong words against Jewish-Gentile sexual relations in Hilkhot Issure Biah 12:6-7.) Yet he is just as explicit that the sexual intercourse has to be public, just like with Zimri…<\/p>\n

Returning to the matter of Jewish-Gentile sexual relations, while the Shulhan Arukh, Even ha-Ezer 16:1, following Maimonides, Hilkhot Issurei Biah 12:2, tells us that occasional sexual relations (i.e., no marital relationship) with a non-Jewish woman is only rabbinically prohibited,[31] R. Nissim of Gerona disagrees. Yet if we are indeed dealing with a Torah prohibition then what does the Talmud[32] mean when it states that the Hasmonean Beit Din decreed against sex with a non-Jewish woman? If it was already forbidden according to the Torah, there would be no need for such a decree.<\/p>\n

R. Nissim suggests that the Hasmonean Beit Din\u2019s decree was designed to add an additional penalty onto an already existing prohibition. It is not that occasional sex with a non-Jewish woman was banned by the Hasmonean Beit Din, but they merely added the penalty of lashes. The reason for this, R. Nissim points out, is that sometimes people are not concerned about heavenly punishments like karet, but they are concerned with an earthly punishment.[33]<\/p>\n

Yet this is a minority view, and the standard approach is that there is no biblical prohibition on occasional private sex with a non-Jewish woman. Here is how the Encylopedia Talmudit sums up the matter[34]:<\/p>\n

\u05d4\u05d1\u05d0 \u05e2\u05dc \u05d4\u05d2\u05d5\u05d9\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e8\u05da \u05d6\u05e0\u05d5\u05ea, \u05d0\u05d9\u05e1\u05d5\u05e8\u05d5 \u05de\u05d3\u05d1\u05e8\u05d9 \u05e1\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd, \u05d2\u05d6\u05e8\u05d4 \u05e9\u05de\u05d0 \u05d9\u05d1\u05d5\u05d0 \u05dc\u05d4\u05ea\u05d7\u05ea\u05df.<\/p>\n

(In case people are wondering, I don\u2019t think that this is the sort of information that should be spread among the masses, precisely because that some people might decide that violating a rabbinic prohibition is not such a big deal.)<\/p>\n

I keep stressing Jewish men and non-Jewish women, since the situation of Jewish women and non-Jewish men has its own issues that should be postponed to another post. But with regard to Jewish women who are intermarried, let me note that according to R. Ovadiah Yosef, such a woman should be told to go to the mikveh. He also adds that she should not tell the mikveh lady about her situation (I assume because she might then be refused entry).[35]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Marc B. Shapiro writes: The censorship of this responsum can only have one purpose, namely, so that people don\u2019t learn about how some members of R. Stern\u2019s community (the Hungarian hasidic world) are having sexual relations with non-Jewish women. What … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[69,28],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-55613","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-marc-b-shapiro","category-sex"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55613","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=55613"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55613\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":55617,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/55613\/revisions\/55617"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=55613"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=55613"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=55613"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}