{"id":44615,"date":"2012-06-29T14:25:45","date_gmt":"2012-06-29T22:25:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=44615"},"modified":"2012-06-29T14:25:45","modified_gmt":"2012-06-29T22:25:45","slug":"will-women-getting-called-to-the-torah-cause-men-to-lust","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/?p=44615","title":{"rendered":"Will Women Getting Called To The Torah Cause Men To Lust?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Historian Marc B. Shapiro writes<\/a>:<\/p>\n

…I quoted a responsum of R. Joseph Messas.[11] In this teshuvah he also explains why women can\u2019t be given aliyot. As is well known, in earlier days this was permitted but the Sages later forbid it on account of kevod ha-tzibbur (Megillah 23a). There have been lots of interpretations of what kevod ha-tzibbur means, but Messas has a very original perspective. He claims that the reason women were banned from receiving aliyot is because this would lead to sexual arousal among the male congregants. Messas believes that this came from the actual experience of the Sages, who saw what happened when women received aliyot. He also assumes that these women would have been dressed in a Taliban-like fashion[12]: \u05d1\u05d4\u05e1\u05ea\u05e8 \u05e4\u05e0\u05d9\u05dd \u05db\u05de\u05e0\u05d4\u05d2 \u05e0\u05e9\u05d9\u05dd \u05e7\u05d3\u05de\u05d5\u05e0\u05d9\u05d5\u05ea. But even such a woman, covered head to toe, still created problems with the sexually fixated men.[13]<\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05d1\u05d3\u05d5\u05e8\u05d5\u05ea \u05e9\u05d0\u05d7\u05e8\u05d9\u05d4\u05dd \u05e8\u05d0\u05d5 \u05e9\u05d9\u05e9 \u05d1\u05d6\u05d4 \u05de\u05d7\u05e9\u05d1\u05ea \u05e2\u05e8\u05d9\u05d5\u05ea, \u05e9\u05d4\u05e6\u05d1\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05e9\u05d5\u05d0\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05d6\u05d4 \u05dc\u05d6\u05d4, \u05de\u05d9 \u05d6\u05d0\u05ea \u05e2\u05d5\u05dc\u05d4 . . . \u05d5\u05d0\u05dd \u05d4\u05d9\u05d4 \u05e7\u05d5\u05dc\u05d4 \u05e2\u05e8\u05d1 \u05de\u05d5\u05e1\u05d9\u05e3 \u05dc\u05d4\u05d1\u05e2\u05d9\u05e8 \u05d0\u05e9 \u05d4\u05d9\u05e6\u05e8, \u05d5\u05dc\u05db\u05df \u05e2\u05de\u05d3\u05d5 \u05d5\u05d1\u05d8\u05dc\u05d5 \u05d0\u05ea \u05d4\u05d3\u05d1\u05e8.<\/p>\n

Knowing how concerned the Sages were about avoiding situations that could lead to sexual thoughts, it makes sense that they would ban the practice if they thought that women\u2019s aliyot would lead in this direction.[14] But Messas now has a problem, because the Talmud doesn\u2019t give this as a reason for abolishing women\u2019s aliyot. Instead, it states that they were abolished because of kevod ha-tzibbur. This leads Messas to offer one of the wonderfully original interpretations that can be found so often in his writings. He claims that because the Sages didn\u2019t want to insult the (male) community by telling them the real reason why they abolished the aliyot, namely, that even during Torah reading men can’t control themselves from sexual thoughts, therefore they invented the concept of kevod ha-tzibbur! However, this is not the real reason, and therefore all attempts to explain the meaning of the term are irrelevant. The real reason is the male sexual desire which as Messas states, is always in need to being fenced in:[15]
\n\u05d5\u05db\u05d3\u05d9 \u05e9\u05dc\u05d0 \u05dc\u05d4\u05e8\u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d0\u05ea \u05d4\u05e6\u05d1\u05d5\u05e8 \u05e9\u05d7\u05e9\u05d3\u05d5 \u05d0\u05d5\u05ea\u05dd, \u05ea\u05dc\u05d5 \u05d4\u05d8\u05e2\u05dd \u05de\u05e4\u05e0\u05d9 \u05db\u05d1\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d4\u05e6\u05d9\u05d1\u05d5\u05e8, \u05e9\u05dc\u05d0 \u05ea\u05d4\u05d0 \u05d4\u05d0\u05e9\u05d4 \u05d4\u05e4\u05d8\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4 \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05d3\u05d1\u05e8 \u05de\u05ea\u05e2\u05e8\u05d1\u05ea \u05e2\u05dd \u05d4\u05d0\u05e0\u05e9\u05d9\u05dd \u05d4\u05de\u05d7\u05d5\u05d9\u05d9\u05d1\u05d9\u05dd \u05d1\u05d5 \u05d5\u05db\u05df \u05d1\u05db\u05dc \u05d3\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05d2\u05d5\u05d3\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd \u05d2\u05d3\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd \u05d1\u05e2\u05e8\u05d9\u05d5\u05ea<\/p>\n

Based on this male weakness, Messas claims that the mehitzah has to be built in such a fashion that the men cannot see the women. He even has a most original way to explain to the women why they are placed in what amounts to a completely other room. Rather than being a sign of their insignificance, it is a sign of how important they are. The proof of this importance is that men are constantly drawn to look at them. Therefore, by building a high mehitzah we are able to save the men from themselves.<\/p>\n

I haven\u2019t yet mentioned the shawls that some women have started wearing (and which was the practice in the days of the Rambam; see Hilkhot Ishut 13:11) Most shawl-wearers are not so extreme as to completely cover their faces, and because of this the practice has been defended by some fairly mainstream people. According to R. Ovadiah Yosef\u2019s son-in-law, R. Aharon Abutbol, and R. David Benizri, R. Ovadiah sees the practice in a positive light for those women who are able to take it on.[16] Among others who have spoken out in favor of the shawls are R. Yitzhak Ratsaby,[17] R. Avraham Baruch,[18] and R. Mendel Fuchs, a dayan for the Edah Haredit (who refers to the \u201cheilige shawl\u201d).[19]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Historian Marc B. Shapiro writes: …I quoted a responsum of R. Joseph Messas.[11] In this teshuvah he also explains why women can\u2019t be given aliyot. As is well known, in earlier days this was permitted but the Sages later forbid … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[69],"tags":[29437,29808,10747,29438,29436,11662],"class_list":["post-44615","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-marc-b-shapiro","tag-cause-men","tag-marc-b-shapiro","tag-r-joseph","tag-reason-women","tag-sexual-thoughts","tag-torah-reading"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44615","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=44615"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44615\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":44616,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/44615\/revisions\/44616"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=44615"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=44615"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lukeford.net\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=44615"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}