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Rabbi Yosef Blau Resigns From The Awareness Center (TAC)

I believe, but don't have direct evidence for this, that the Tendlers are behind this new website Blaufacts.com.

I find it hard to believe that rabbis Joseph Telushkin and Saul Berman are behind this new site, even though much of the contents of the new site is similar to a series of attacks those rabbis made against rabbi Blau and TAC via carefully written letters (widely distributed) over the past year. But this site is not the modus operandi of rabbi Telushkin and Berman. One can argue that some of their criticisms about rabbi Blau were wrong, but most everyone who knows them says they are honorable.

Blaufacts.com reproduces this letter from rabbi Telushkin and Berman. Was it done without their permission?

September 13, 2004

Dear Rabbi Blau,

Since we met some months ago to discuss some issues related to sexual abuse and the role of The Awareness Center, Rabbi Joseph Telushkin and I have been maintaining a continuing interest in the activities of The Awareness Center.

My recent letter to Vicki Polin and the members of the Executive Committee of The Awareness Center included a list of suggested policy recommendations which would have made the operation of The Awareness Center website a fair and effective instrument in the battle against sexual abuse in the Jewish community. Unfortunately, Vicki, in the name of the Executive Committee, dismissed all of the suggestions with a single condescending brush stroke.

Permit us to be perfectly blunt. The Awareness Center website as it currently stands is often misleading, its truthfulness cannot be assumed, and, in the name of justice, it has itself become an instrument of vicious abuse. We are moved to make this harsh evaluation in the light of the following points and more:

1. The claim that the site will only report previously published accusations is an outright lie. Vicki has herself sent anonymous slanderous postings to web blogs and then cited them on The Awareness Center site as the basis for serious accusations.

2. The Awareness Center posts and distributes material which is totally false, describing as fact occurrences which simply never took place. The clear intent is the character assassination of those whom Vicki has decided are deserving of public defamation.

3. The site does not remove accusatory material even after full and multiple investigations have concluded that they are false.

4. The Awareness Center has initiated campaigns to destroy the reputation and work prospects of accused persons, even after their names have been formally cleared and/or full resolution between the parties has been achieved.

5. The site will provide no opportunity for response by accused persons, other than an admission of guilt.

6. The attempt to destroy people's reputations long after their death is not the pursuit of justice, it is journalistic pornography.

These and many other serious offenses (of which we have extensive substantiation) have made The Awareness Center an untrustworthy and deplorable repository of falsehoods, innuendoes, and scandal mongering. It is a disgrace to the Jewish community and we will not abide its continued destructive activities.

We fear that your own reputation for probity and for responsible communal response to the vital issue of sexual abuse may be seriously injured by your continued association with The Awareness Center. We urge you, as we will be strongly urging all others connected with it, to disassociate your name from The Awareness Center until such time as responsible policies and honest procedures are implemented for its future operation.

Sincerely,

Rabbi Saul J. Berman
Rabbi Joseph Telushkin

The exchange of letters between rabbis Saul Berman (SaulBerman at AOL.com) and Joseph Telushkin and The Awareness Center began March 25, 2004.

Rabbi Saul Berman writes Vicki Polin:

Rabbi Bob Carroll shared with me your inquiry about creating a link to your important website from the Edah site. I believe that he responded briefly to your inquiry, but I would like to expand the discussion further in order to see whether our concerns could be sufficiently put to rest to enable us to work together. The Edah website currently gets in excess of 325,000 clicks per month and could serve as a valuable portal for information about the abuse problem in the Jewish community. We would like to be able to provide our community of readers with the opportunity to be more aware of the problem and the resources available to help victims.

The particular concerns that we have are as follows:

1. Process. Do you yourself make the determinations to include individual cases within the listings of accused abusers? Are the members of your Advisory Council consulted in each case and does there have to be a vote or arrival at consensus in order to warrant inclusion?

2. Age of the charge. Do you operate with any equivalent of a statute of limitations? For example, the charges against Rabbi Shlomo Aviner were already 15 years old and you document no prior or subsequent charges against him. What is the purpose then of listing him? It sounds like the purpose is to disgrace him for his alleged behavior rather than to protect the community from future threat.

3. Evidence for the charge. When an allegation includes no substantiation whatsoever, and in consequence, public prosecutors dismiss the charges, why should the allegation be honored by inclusion? Such is the situation, for example of the charges against Rabbi Yonah Metzger. Should not the site at minimum provide the accused with an opportunity to respond to the charges?

4. Halachic criteria. Does the site operate by any Halachic criteria for the permissibility of publicizing unlitigated and unwitnessed accusations? If yes, who is the Halachik decisor on such matters? Certainly the Chofetz Chaim requires not only first hand knowledge to justify reporting truthful but defamatory reports, but it also requires that Tochacha be issued. I assume that means that the accused must be provided with an opportunity to either deny wrongdoing, or to do teshuva. Does the center provide the opportunity, when feasible, for such direct engagement with alleged abusers?

5. Range of wrongs. The Center identifies itself as being the "Jewish Coalition Against Sexual Abuse/Assault." If that is the limit of its mandate, and that is already extraordinarily broad, why does the site venture into matters of "cultic" practices which involve no direct allegations of sexual wrongdoing? For example the newspaper articles concerning Rabbi Mordecai Gafni charge him with unspecified "cultic" practices, but make no suggestions of sexual wrongdoing. Is this simply an evasive attempt to "get" Gafni for long circulating, but never publicly confirmed, allegations of impropriety dating from over twenty years ago?

6. Unlistings. What criteria are utilized for removing people from the listing? For example, there was a time when Rabbi Tzvi Flaum was listed on the site. What process was put into motion that eventually resulted in his removal from the list, and what determines when that process is set in motion?

As I indicated at the outset, we truly value the work you are doing and would like to be able to do our part in helping rid the Jewish community of leaders who exploit the vulnerabilities of others in the interest of their own sexual gratification. We feel, however, that our concerns about the above issues of process and substantive criteria must be responded to, in theory and practice, before we can use our website to promote the visibility of the Center. Please get back to me as soon as possible so that we can explore these issues together.

Sincerely, rabbi Saul J. Berman

.............

Vicki Polin responded:

June 16, 2004

Dear Rabbi Berman,

Thank you for taking the time to write regarding the concerns about The Awareness Center. I also want to apologize for taking so long to get back to you. Please understand that we at The Awareness Center receive enormous numbers of emails and phone calls on a daily basis, which causes us to function as a crisis hot-line.

I know you originally wrote your letter to me (Vicki), but the Executive Board of Directors decided to respond together, as an organization.

We have no way of knowing whether our reply will put all of your concerns to rest--only you would know that. However, we hope that you read the information below with an open mind, not only to the rights of the accused, but also to that of the many victims repeatedly silenced in the past.

1. Process. Do you yourself make the determinations to include individual cases within the listings of accused abusers? Are the members of your Advisory Council consulted in each case and does there have to be a vote or arrival at consensus in order to warrant inclusion?

At this time Vicki Polin is the webmaster of our site. The Awareness Center has a few volunteers who post articles and other information to our daily email newsletters. Vicki Polin, as the Executive Director and President of The Awareness Center, is aware of and approves all the cases that are posted. Our policy is to post all cases of alleged and convicted offenders, whose allegations/convictions have been published elsewhere in legal and/or court documentation, police reports, newspapers, etc. We might also allow other information to be posted as long as at least one other Board of Directors member approves.

Our Executive Board of Directors includes:
Vicki Polin - President
Na'ama Yehuda - Vice President
Michael Salamon, Ph.D. - Treasurer
Rabbi Yosef Blau - Secretary

The Awareness Center also has an Advisory Board whose members offer us a wide range of advice on various issues that pertain to sexual victimization/violence/offenders in Jewish communities around the globe. Please be aware that The Awareness Center is purely a volunteer run organization. Our Executive Director, Board of Directors, Advisory Board and other volunteers devote hundreds if not thousands of hours of their personal time, without any compensation. Once The Awareness Center has funding, and we are able to pay our Executive Director and hire other necessary staff there will be, if needed, changes in the way we operate.

2. Age of the charge. Do you operate with any equivalent of a statute of limitations? For example, the charges against Rabbi Shlomo Aviner were already 15 years old and you document no prior or subsequent charges against him. What is the purpose then of listing him? It sounds like the purpose is to disgrace him for his alleged behavior rather than to protect the community from future threat.

The Awareness Center is not a litigation organization. We are a resource/referral organization that operates as a clearinghouse for information already posted elsewhere. Almost all the information on our web page is information that has been published elsewhere. Exceptions being articles written by members of our Board of Directors, Advisory Board, or other individuals whom we respect. Our web page acts as a specialized library on the topic of sexual violence/victimization.

Did you know that in some countries there is no statue of limitation on cases of sexual violence? Once such country is Canada. When someone is sexually violated it is as if someone has murdered his or her soul. This is one of the many reasons why we do not put time restraints on articles.

It has been well documented in the general public and also in Jewish communities that many offenders will victimize in one community and then move on to another. The status quo has been that different communities do not share vital information, with the end result being that children and/or adults continue to be sexually violated. As we know there has been a code of silence, in society at large but very much so in the Jewish Community--not to tell. Because of such codes of silence, offenders who abused 30 or even 40 years ago often continue to offend today.

The Awareness Center gets emails on a daily basis from NEW survivors of offenders listed on the site, often about offenses that happened many years ago, and were kept silent because the victim was certain that he or she were the only ones. If we cap the length of time an offense can be listed, we are in effect claiming that after a time, a survivor is no longer entitiled to recognition. We also in effect silence potential future victims who might otherwise not know that they are not the only ones an offender has harmed, and would therefore be likely to speak up.

The Awareness Center's mission is not to cause humiliation to anyone, not even to abusers--we are niether judge nor jury, nor do we claim to stand in place of higher authorities of justice. We do, however, believe that a victim's right to validation comes BEFORE an offender's right for privacy. It is always painful to come across yet another Jewish person who was offended. It saddens us even more when we find so many offenders who had charges against them dropped or dismissed as incomplete evidence following witness tampering, intimidation, and using the force of authority figures to silence the victims.

At the same time, if you or anyone else wants to provide us with documentations that prove that Rabbi Aviner (or any other of the alleged or convicted offenders on the site) took steps to not only take responsibility for wrongdoings, asked forgiveness of victims, had entered and completed treatment with a psychotherapist who has recognized experience with treating sexual offenders and who is willing to give a written letter that they are no longer posing a risk to others--we would not only be thrilled for the steps to healing taken by members of our community, but will seriously consider taking the case off the site, or moving it to a link for offenders who made "teshuva" (not only between them and G-d but also between Adam-Lechavero) and can be models to others who erred.

3. Evidence for the charge. When an allegation includes no substantiation whatsoever, and in consequence, public prosecutors dismiss the charges, why should the allegation be honored by inclusion? Such is the situation, for example of the charges against Rabbi Yonah Metzger. Should not the site at minimum provide the accused with an opportunity to respond to the charges?

Some of the comments above should address the above concern. To repeat the important points--sadly, there were many cases where the police dropped the investigation or the case was dismissed following witness tampering, threatening, shaming, and other methods of silencing the victims. If you are familiar with some of the more public cases, you must know that unfortunatelly such manipulations in handling of complaints were not rare. Victims and their families were routinely told by rabbinical courts, rabbis of their community, or people close to the accused rabbi, that if they did not drop their charges/stop talking about it and so forth, they will be excommunicated, their children will not find a shiduch, no yeshiva would accept their children, etc... Families of victims had to recant or stop cooperating with the police because otherwise they were accused of "mesira", "lashon-hara", and ruining the name of a rabbi. Many were told flat out that they should keep quiet because the rabbi's reputation was more important than anything that he might have done to them!

Because of the long history of meddling and muddying the water of victims' complaints, The Awareness Center is forced to make difficult decisions. Please note that we do not post personal communications of people who claim that this or that person had harmed them, only information that was already published/written elsewhere, and only from reputable sources/publications.

As for the offender's right to respond--of course that they have the same right to respond as any one else! We would welcome responses from offenders who can open our eyes to formal documentation that we overlooked and which they believe should be on the site. Though we cannot promise to post them, we will give such documentation serious and expedited consideration for posting. Even more--for those offenders want to use The Awareness Center's forum as a place for public apology and regonition of the severity of their actions, via personal emails/mail and/or documents that hold such apologies from a previous time, we would take these under expedited consideration as well.

4. Halachic criteria. Does the site operate by any Halachic criteria for the permissibility of publicizing unlitigated and unwitnessed accusations? If yes, who is the Halachik decisor on such matters? Certainly the Chofetz Chaim requires not only first hand knowledge to justify reporting truthful but defamatory reports, but it also requires that Tochacha be issued. I assume that means that the accused must be provided with an opportunity to either deny wrongdoing, or to do teshuva. Does the center provide the opportunity, when feasible, for such direct engagement with alleged abusers?

Please be advised that Rabbi Yosef Blau is on our Board of Directors and we consult with him almost daily. We also have five other rabbis on our Advisory Board. Please feel free to consult with Rabbi Blau if you have any more Halachic concerns.

Even more so, if you'd look at the list of Rabbis who are supportive of The Awareness Center (Rabbis who Publicly Support the Efforts of The Awareness Center), you'll see many rabbis outside of the immediate circle of The Awareness Center's boards, who are supportive of our mission and our policies. In addition, rabbis in Israel and in the US have made Psakim specifically in cases of sexual abuse. They make it clear that in case of a sex-offender, because of the danger to others in the community (let alone the mountains of studies on sexual offenders which depict repeated offenses in most cases if not stopped) Lashon Hara DOES NOT apply, because the life of the community comes first. In another psak that calls for a Kal-Vachomer (all the more so), a rabbi in Israel ruled that when a parent (or other person in authority) commites a sexual offense, especially if it is against a child or a vulnerable person under their care/teaching, and even more so if it's been a repeated offense, they give up their right as a parent (teacher). So much so that in cases of incest, the child, even if adult, is DISMISSED from Kibud-Av v'Em, and is only bound to sit Shiva, but not to cloth and feed and house and other aspects that are bound by Jewish law.

That said, of course there is place for Teshuva. If a person does Teshuva for sins against another person, a plea for forgiveness from G-d is not sufficient--they must first mend the fences with the person/s they hurt and get forgiveness (or at least make serious attempts at that) bedore they even approach G-d's forgiveness.

We can see an example for the hirarchy of Teshuva in Neviim, when Ishaia scolds Israel for doing wrongs among themselves and yet seeking salvation through coming up to the Temple to sacrifice come holidays: (Ishaia Alef, 11-18)--"Lama Li Rov Zivcheichem...gam ki tarbu tefila eineny shomea, yedechem damim maleu.....Limdu heitev, dirshu mishpat, ashru chamotz, shiftu yatom, rivu almana." It is only through working through the harms done by person to person that we can approach G-d for forgiveness--as a nation, not only as individuals.

It would be interesting to know how the Chofetz Chaim would have ruled regarding the issues of sexual abuse in this day and age--at the time such issues were Taboo, and were not discussed. Nor was it known that sexual offenders are likely to continue to offend. Maybe the Chofetz Chaim would have made an exception in cases where the safety of the rest of the community was at stake.

With respect to Tochecha: this is sadly yet another issue where history has not proven itself. When rabbis were repreimanded in the past for offenses (which were, by the way, immediately and effectively silenced), they often harmed again, in the same community or in other communities that were not told of their danger, all because of fear of Lashon-Hara. The Tocheca didn't help, and more victims got hurt. When we come against sexual offenses, especially those committed against minors--research, statistics, and reality show that reprimand is not an effective tool against recidivism. Informing the public, however, is effective as it often brings into the light additional victims, allows procesuction, and ENFORCES TREATMENT on offenders who would otherwise just continue to offend. For those who find Tochecha to be enough, maybe they could take this opportunity to ask for survivors' forgiveness, seek treatment, and publicly let people know that they are aware and dealing with the danger they pose to others, and are taking steps to stop it. Pushing things under the table in hushed meetings among the rabbis of a rabbinical courts has NOT proven itself effective. Maybe one day, when rabbis will recieve training in sexual abuse prevention, identificaion, and treatment, there will be room to approach offenders within a more private forum. To date, as a community, we do not yet have the tools to do so.

5. Range of wrongs. The Center identifies itself as being the "Jewish Coalition Against Sexual Abuse/Assault." If that is the limit of its mandate, and that is already extraordinarily broad, why does the site venture into matters of "cultic" practices which involve no direct allegations of sexual wrongdoing? For example the newspaper articles concerning Rabbi Mordecai Gafni charge him with unspecified "cultic" practices, but make no suggestions of sexual wrongdoing. Is this simply an evasive attempt to "get" Gafni for long circulating, but never publicly confirmed, allegations of impropriety dating from over twenty years ago?

Your concerns abour 'cultic' practices are understood. Maybe the relationship between cultic practices and sexual abuse would be less ambigous to you if you found time to read about the connection between cults and sexual victimization. Unfortunately, cults and cult-like communities often involve abuse of power (including sexual abuse/assault/exploitation) as well as secercy and intimidation via power figures. In almost all cases of cults or cult-like accusations, victims were hushed of devalued in order to maintain the integrity of the group. However, once things became known, there was no longer doubt that allegations were true and in most cases only the tip of the iceberg.

6. Unlistings. What criteria are utilized for removing people from the listing? For example, there was a time when Rabbi Tzvi Flaum was listed on the site. What process was put into motion that eventually resulted in his removal from the list, and what determines when that process is set in motion?

Rabbi Tzvi Flaum is still listed on our site, though in a different location. You can find his case here: Domestic Violence in Jewish Homes.

As mentioned above in several places, there is a process for removal form the list (Policies Addressing Victimization and Offenders), (When Melodies, Torah Scholars, and Abuse Collide).

If an offender publicly apologizes for the offenses, takes responsibiliy for the pain they caused, undergoes therapy with a therapist who is recognized as an expert in the area of sexual offenders and completes the therapy with an official letter from the therapist confirmoing that they are no longer in danger to offend, and is willing to comply with whatever treatment (psycotherapy, medication, combination thereof) needed to make sure they do not offend again, then their request to be removed from the offenders site can be seiously considered.

As I indicated at the outset, we truly value the work you are doing and would like to be able to do our part in helping rid the Jewish community of leaders who exploit the vulnerabilities of others in the interest of their own sexual gratification. We feel, however, that our concerns about the above issues of process and substantive criteria must be responded to, in theory and practice, before we can use our website to promote the visibility of the Center.

We hope that the above information helps clarify our policies and underlying reasoning. It is painful to know that such unspeakable events can happen in our community. However, it is important that we allow voice to those who'd been harmed, and stop the processes of silencing those victims who already spoke up so that they can heal and others not be harmed. By not allowing the reality of sexual victimization to be known as soon as we become aware of it, we in effect become willing participates in scerecy and silent endorsement.

We at The Awareness Center would very much welcome the support of Edah for our work, which is a work of heart, tirelessly done with no monetary compensation as of date, and in spite of countless trials and tribulations. You circulation would increase awareness to atrocities within our community and help us all reach for solutions that will stand the test of time.

We hope that you find a way to bridge the conceptual gaps that sexual victimization forces us all to make--it is against everything Jewish when people of power harm those more vulnerable. It is not an easy or comfortable reality to hold, and we all wish it could just go away. For those who have been victimized, and for those who would if we don't allow victimes to speak up or step forward--we must go on.

Sincerely,

Vicki Polin, MA, LCPC - President
Na'ama Yehuda, MSC, SLP, APP - Vice President
Michael Salamon, PhD - Treasurer
Rabbi Yosef Blau - Secretary Executive Board of Directors - The Awareness Center

Rabbi Saul Berman responded August 26, 2004:

Dear Colleagues and Friends,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to the inquiries which I had made concerning the functioning and policies of The Awareness Center (TAC).

Unfortunately, I did not find satisfaction of my concerns in your responses. On the contrary, your letter makes me even more concerned than before about Awareness Center practices which are themselves irresponsible, lacking in accountability and therefore, potentially abusive towards innocent persons.

However, I continue to recognize the essential contribution which TAC can make to helping the Jewish community deal with issues of sexual abuse, Therefore, rather than throwing up my hands in despair and disappointment and urging others to disassociate themselves from TAC, I would like to join with you in looking at possible policy changes which could make your work even more effective in enlisting the support of the community.

In my comments I will retain the order and numbering of my original letter, and of your responses, so that we can refer to those as necessary.

1. Process of Listing - On two separate occasions you indicate that TAC will only post information which was already published in other reputable sources. You know that to be not true and, therefore, you add a morally undermining caveat – that you would “allow other information to be posted as long as at least one other Board of Directors member approves.” This slight exception, while tempting given the secrecy which has engulfed such situations, opens the door to witch-hunting and vengeance for personal grievances. It is essential that the fundamental threshold of prior publication in reputable sources be upheld.

Nor should blogs and other such self-publishing vehicles be acceptable as a reputable source. Vicki Polin has on occasion sent her own comments into blogs, over the signature ‘Me,’ and then used them as a basis for reporting accusations within TAC site. This is certainly unconscionable.

1. Age of the charge - I am persuaded by your comments that no Statute of Limitations should apply in regard to prosecutions for criminal sexual assault. Likewise, the report of conviction or of a finding of culpability by an Ethics committee of a Professional association, should remain posted on the website. However, the same cannot possibly be justified in regard to accusations for which, over time, there remains insufficient evidence for any legal action and absence of evidence of a pattern of continuing sexual impropriety. While it is essential to continue to monitor such situations, it is unjust for a barren accusation to be held permanently before the eyes of the community.

I would suggest the following policy: A previously published accusation should be allowed to remain on TAC website for up to one year after the listing. If by that time there have been no additional accusations reported either in publications or directly to TAC, then the article should be removed into a non-public monitoring area. The website should prominently announce that aside from the persons openly listed as accused or convicted abusers, there are other persons who are being monitored, and that people should transmit to TAC any information about sexual abuse since it might help lead to prosecution of repeat abusers. Also, the accused should be informed by TAC that the published material is being removed from the website, but that emergence of any future accusations could cause the material to be restored to public view.

1. Evidence for the Charge - I understand and sympathize with the temptation to ascribe veracity to every charge of sexual assault, particularly when there appears to be exploitation of a vulnerable victim. However, the totalitarian mindset of guilty until proven innocent, is, and must be, rejected by persons with democratic spirit, and certainly by people infused with the spirit of Jewish Law and values.

Reporting published records of accusations is essential to encourage further reports being made. However, once an accusation has been adequately investigated by a public or responsible private body and the charges have been dismissed, it is essential, in the Jewish spirit of justice, for the exculpatory finding to be reported on TAC website for a period of some months, and for the entire record to then be removed from the site.

1. Halachic Criteria - I would certainly agree that the protection of children and vulnerable adults can often require, even by Halachic standards, the posting of published accusations against otherwise upstanding citizens. Where criminal prosecution is possible, many, including myself, argue that there is a Halachic duty to report the assault to the appropriate governmental authority in order to allow criminal prosecution to be pursued. Likewise, where possible, accusations should be reported to employers and Professional Associations for condemnatory action against accused abusers.

Where no criminal prosecution is possible, and no Professional Association has jurisdiction, the primary goals need to shift. Firstly, TAC must provide referrals to gain help and healing of the psychological and spiritual wounds of the victim. Secondly, one accused of a lengthy pattern of abusive relationships should be encouraged to seek Psychiatric and Spiritual counsel. Thirdly, when the accusations suggest that the abusive behavior was sporadic or rare and contextual, then TAC should attempt to bring the accused abuser and his or her victim together for reconciliation, itself a critical element in healing the wounds. Continued public listing of accusations on TAC website, must be used not as a goal in itself, but as a tool to produce the aforementioned results (i.e., as Tochacha.)

Whenever possible, TAC must utilize accepted mediation services and techniques to bring victim and accused together for an attempt at resolution of their conflict (i.e., as Teshuva and Piyus.)

1. Range of Wrongs - I remain opposed to TAC being focused on anything other than direct instances of sexual abuse within the Jewish community. While sexual abuse is connected to some cults, it is also connected to certain social and economic conditions, to varied psychological backgrounds and certainly to the general status of women within the given culture. Such connections could theoretically justify the inclusion of any information concerning human beings within the website. It is an unacceptable diversion of the resources and energies of TAC, its website, its staff, and its supporters, to report on matters outside its direct mandate.

Recent issues of TAC Digest have strayed massively away from the central focus of the organization, including reports on Israeli politics, religious conflict related to the status of women, and much news totally unrelated to the Jewish community. Such news briefings should be discontinued, and the website should immediately have removed from it any published materials related to cultic practices, which have no direct bearing on allegations of sexual abuse.

1. Unlistings - It is essential that TAC not be perceived as a garbage site, a permanent dumping grounds for every allegation of sexual impropriety against Jews and Jewish leaders. It is precisely this perception which has made TAC a favorite subject and link within many anti-Semitic websites. Vicki has had to work valiantly to reduce the prominence of such misuse of TAC within Google citations. The dynamic character of the web-listings would itself encourage the confidence of our community in the integrity of the site.

I have above identified two situations in which a listing should be removed:

a. If after one year of the listing of a published accusation, no further reports of abuse have been identified, then the report will be removed to a monitoring area within TAC, not available for public viewing

b. If an accusation has been adequately investigated by a public or responsible private body and the charges have been dismissed, the exculpatory finding will be reported on TAC website for a period of three months. If no new accusations of abuse are made within that time, the entire record will then be removed from TAC website.

I would add two additional circumstances in which listings should be removed:

c. If, pursuant to the attempts outlined above (par. 4), an actual reconciliation is achieved between the victim and the accused, then the mediated agreement between them should specifically call for the removal of published information from TAC website, and that should immediately be done.

d. Any person concerning whom a published record of accusation of sexual abuse appears on TAC website, must have the right to appeal that decision to a Special Committee of the Board of Directors of TAC. Such an appeal should be able to be done either in person or in writing. Minimally such communication with the accused could produce an opportunity to press the accused to go for help, to do Teshuva, and to attempt reconciliation with the victim. The Committee might offer to include exculpatory materials within the listing. The Committee must remain open to the possibility that they will be persuaded by the appeal that there is in fact no substance to the accusation and that the material should be removed from the website pending further clarification, or permanently.

This closes my narrative response to your letter. The following is an outline of the policies which I believe would deeply strengthen The Awareness Center, and would certainly make it possible for Edah to throw its support behind the project.

Proposed standards of operation of The Awareness Center

1. Process of listing:
a. No listing will be done on the website without prior publication of incriminating information in a reputable source in which an accused is specifically mentioned by name.
b. Blogs, and other self-published materials will not be utilized as a reputable source of prior publication.
c. The executive Director of TAC and its Board members will be expected to refrain from “blogging” based on unpublished information.

2. Age of the Charge:
a. There will be no statute of limitations for the listing of criminal convictions or of findings of impropriety by Professional associations.
b. If, however, after one year of the listing of a published accusation, no further reports of abuse have been identified, then the report will be removed to a monitoring area within TAC, not available for public viewing.
c. Emphasis will be placed within TAC website, and by its supporters, on the encouragement of reporting accusations of abuse concerning persons not publicly identified on the website.
d. The accused will be informed of the removal of the published material, but will be informed that any new accusations could result in the restoration of the material to public view.

3. Evidence for the Charge:
a. Published reports of accusations of sexual abuse will be reported on TAC website despite the absence of corroborating evidence or testimony.
b. If an accusation has been adequately investigated by a public or responsible private body and the charges have been dismissed, the exculpatory finding will be reported on TAC website for a period of three months.
c. If no new accusations of abuse are made within that time, the entire record will then be removed from TAC website.

4. Halachic Criteria
a. TAC will encourage victims to report allegations of sexual abuse to appropriate governmental authorities for criminal prosecution, and to employers and Professional Associations for administrative action.
b. TAC will provide referrals for victims to professional help in achieving healing of their psychological and spiritual wounds.
c. TAC will attempt in advise persons accused of lengthy patterns of sexual abuse, to seek appropriate psychiatric and spiritual help.
d. Whenever possible, TAC will attempt to bring victim and accused together under supervised circumstances for resolution by mediation.

5. Range of Wrongs
a. TAC will remain focused exclusively on the subject of sexual abuse within the Jewish community.
b. TAC Digests will not include materials other than the above.
c. The staff will immediately remove from, and not further include within, TAC website, any published articles which do not deal directly with allegations of sexual abuse within the Jewish community.

6. Unlistings
a. (2.b. above) If after one year of the listing of a published accusation, no further reports of abuse have been identified, then the report will be removed to a monitoring area within TAC, not available for public viewing
b. (3.b.&c. above) If an accusation has been adequately investigated by a public or responsible private body and the charges have been dismissed, the exculpatory finding will be reported on TAC website for a period of three months. If no new accusations of abuse are made within that time, the entire record will then be removed from TAC website.
c. If, pursuant to the attempts outlined above (par. 4. d.), an actual reconciliation is achieved between the victim and the accused, then the mediated agreement between them should specifically call for the removal of published information from TAC website, and that should immediately be done.
d. Every accused person should be entitled to appeal to a Special Committee, either in writing or in person. If the Committee is persuaded that the accusation is unfounded, they shall instruct the removal of materials from the website.

Just to concretize the implications of these standards, a complete review of the listings at the website would have to be undertaken to assure compliance with the standards. Entries concerning the following individuals would have to be immediately eliminated for non-conformity with the standards : Rabbis Shlomo Aviner, Mordechai Gafni, Yonah Metzger and Don Well. I am certain that other cases would also now fall outside the limits of propriety set by these standards. These changes will be perceived as strength, not weakness.

I recognize the truth of your oft asserted declaration that The Awareness Center lacks the financial and human resources to achieve its own ideal vision, and therefore might find it difficult to undertake the intense evaluation required by this proposal. A smaller, tighter operation, more clearly focused on a narrow mission and operating with well defined and defensible policies, would be in a stronger position to appeal for the funds needed to assure its effectiveness. Many would be more willing to help raise the necessary funds.

Conversely, failure to take the immediate steps indicated above, and reluctance to adopt the clear standards outlined above will result in severe defection of supporters and the likelihood of being discredited within the very community you seek to defend. I look forward to your prompt response and to our being able to work together toward your vision – the protection of our community from sexual predation.

Sincerely yours,

Rabbi Saul J. Berman

January 4, 2005, rabbi Berman writes again:

Dear members of the Awareness Center board,

The issue of sexual abuse in the Jewish community is an important one that needs to be confronted. However, due to serious concerns amongst growing numbers of members of the Jewish community about the tactics and abuses of the Awareness Center, as well as Vicki Polin's refusal to respond satisfactorily to my previous communications, we feel forced to take action in order to prevent the continued undermining of this important issue.

It is not clear how aware you as board members have been of the abusive, unethical, unhalachic and libelous ways in which Vicki has conducted her efforts in your names, but we assume that it is in everyone's best interest for the Awareness Center to operate at the highest level of integrity so that its actions are respected and trusted in the community. Since that is currently not the case, we hope that you will do everything in your power to immediately make the changes which Vicki Polin herself has been unwilling to do, or to shut down the site. The way the site now operates makes the members of the board subject to serious personal liability.

Please read the attached letter addressed to Rabbi Blau from myself, Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, Rabbi Shefa Gold, Dr. Stephen Marmer, and Naomi Mark which outlines some of the issues involved. I will be contacting several of you by phone in the next day to discuss this further. Unless certain changes are made soon in the way that Vicki Polin operates, we stand ready to take further action.

Here is the letter referred to above:

Dear Rabbi Blau,

Since we met some months ago to discuss some issues related to sexual abuse and the role of The Awareness Center, Rabbi Joseph Telushkin and I have been maintaining a continuing interest in the activities of The Awareness Center. We are very alarmed at the apparent absence of control over the site by the prominent people who attach their names to it.

My letter this past spring to Vicki Polin and the members of the Executive Committee of The Awareness Center included a list of suggested policy guidelines which would have made the operation of The Awareness Center website a fair and effective instrument in the battle against sexual abuse in the Jewish community. Unfortunately, Vicki, in the name of the Executive Committee, dismissed all of the suggestions with a single condescending brush stroke. She noted in that letter, "Please be advised that Rabbi Yosef Blau is on our board of directors and we consult with him almost daily. Please feel free to consult with Rabbi Blau if you have any more halachic concerns." It is clear that you, Rabbi Blau, are Vicki Polin's source of Jewish ethical and halachic credibility.

Upon further investigation a number of highly disturbing matters have come to light which demonstrate that Vicki Polin is unfit to direct an effort like the Awareness Center, a role which demands impeccable integrity, honesty and psychological stability. For example, we have definitive information in the form of transcripts and signed affidavits that Vicki appeared on May 1, 1989 on the Oprah Winfrey show under a pseudonym. She claimed - partly on the show and partly in private conversations - that she had recovered through therapy many horrific memories of ritualistic abuse and that these memories included the following;

1) that she and others were repeatedly sexually abused on open Torah scrolls in a synagogue
2) that she was forced by her parents and other Jewish families to murder babies and eat their flesh
3) that she has had five abortions as a result of repeated incest with her father
4) that her repeated sexual abuse was part of a widespread phenomenon (involving many rabbis and community professionals) of neo-satanic ritual abuse and murder within the Jewish community. According to Vicki, the satanic cult in which her family was involved is directly traceable to the false messiah Jacob Frank.

All sectors of the Jewish community were appropriately outraged by her appearance on the Oprah show, and the claims she made on the show have since been used by anti-Semitic groups as modern evidence of the ancient canard of the Jewish blood libel. In response, Oprah's producers pointed out correctly that it had been made clear on the show that Vicki was mentally disturbed. Vicki herself has shared with friends that she suffers from multiple personality disorder.

Vicki has also presented herself, on the record and in private conversation, as the psychotherapist of particular alleged victims of sexual abuse reported on by The Awareness Center. That Vicki should be in a therapeutic role with these women is unconscionable and any information that comes from her can simply not be considered credible.

The person who has partnered with Vicki in a number of unjustified and distortion-filled character assassinations has been Luke Ford, whom you have cooperated with as well, Rabbi Blau. Luke Ford is a discredited malicious gossip columnist for the pornography industry. He has made clear in his own writings that he does not check information, that he often reports information that is false, and that his definition of truth is that it expresses "the point of view" of the person telling him the information.

We find it shocking that you not only associate with Vicki Polin and Luke Ford, but that you are the major source of professional rabbinic credibility for Vicki Polin and the Awareness Center. Vicki Polin has written clearly that she only publishes materials from "reputable sources." It is difficult to imagine that under any definition Luke Ford's blog and reports would fit into that category.

Most importantly, the Awareness Center as it currently operates is often misleading, dishonest, and, in the name of justice, viciously abusive. We are moved to make this harsh evaluation in the light of the following points:

1. The claim that the website will only report previously published accusations is an outright lie.

1a. Vicki, responding to my (Rabbi Berman) initial communication of concerns, wrote as follows: "Please note that we do not post personal communications of people who claim that this or that person harmed them." (6/16/04 letter from Vicki Polin to Rabbi Berman, representing herself and the executive board of TAC). In fact, the Awareness Center has posted personal testimonies, including those discredited by earlier investigation.

2. Vicki herself or through a close associate sends anonymous slanderous postings to web blogs and then cites them on The Awareness Center site and in mailings as the basis for serious accusations.

3. The Awareness Center posts and distributes material which is totally false, describing as fact occurrences which never took place. The clear intent is the character assassination of those whom Vicki has decided are deserving of public defamation.

4. The site does not remove accusatory material even after full and multiple investigations have concluded that they are false.

5. The Awareness Center regularly initiates active campaigns to destroy the reputation and work prospects of accused persons, without any evidence other than accusation, even when the refutation of the accused party is compelling, and even after their names have been formally cleared and/or full resolution between the parties has been achieved, and even when it is clear the accused person poses no danger.

6. The site will provide no opportunity for response by accused persons, other than an admission of guilt.

7. The attempt to destroy people's reputations long after their death is not the pursuit of justice, it is journalistic pornography.

These and other serious offenses (of which we have extensive substantiation) have made The Awareness Center an untrustworthy and deplorable repository of falsehoods, innuendoes, and scandal mongering. The Awareness Center is in gross violation of all halachic standards that might apply to these situations. It also violates standards of libel, with its board members personally liable for any legal action highly likely to be taken against it.

As a result of the McCarthyite activities of the Awareness Center and its false and unsubstantiated accusations, the real and critical issue of sexual abuse is being truly undermined. All of this leads us to conclude that we have an obligation to protect innocent people from name rape and other terrible violations. The Awareness Center is a disgrace to the Jewish community and we should not abide its continued destructive activities.

We believe that our concerns about the Awareness Center's transgressions will need to be publicized to the general public, and we will take steps to allow that to happen, unless there is an immediate removal of inappropriate material from the Awareness Center site, and serious safeguards and oversight instituted to prevent continued abuses. While the original motivations behind the Awareness Center are indeed important, these same goals can be accomplished-as we outlined in a several-page letter to Vicki Polin-without the Awareness Center devolving into an instrument of abuse in which the ends justify any means.

Two key members of the board/advisory board who, as we do, support the fight against sexual abuse, have already resigned from the board, independently of any effort on our part. We also know that there are those promoted on the website as "Rabbis Who Publicly Support the Awareness Center" who have no idea that their names are being listed. After one of these rabbis, Shefa Gold, was made aware that her name was being inappropriately used, she contacted Vicki strongly insisting that her name be immediately removed. This was months ago and her name is still listed as of this day, in flagrant violation of her request.

It is clear that the Awareness Center website speaks for its board as well as claiming to speak for the Jewish community as a whole without any mandate, oversight or control by those bodies. We fear that your own reputation for probity and your leadership role in the communal response to the vital issue of sexual abuse may be seriously injured by your continued association with The Awareness Center. We urge you to disassociate your name from the Awareness Center and to work toward its closure until such time as responsible policies and honest procedures are implemented for its future operation.

Sincerely, Rabbi Saul J. Berman
Rabbi Joseph Telushkin
Rabbi Shefa Gold
Stephen S. Marmer, MD, PhD
Naomi Mark, ACSW

Rabbi Blau, the leading Orthodox figure behind TAC, is no longer listed on TAC. So it appears that he has resigned from TAC.

Rabbi Blau's letter to The Jewish Press, ardent defenders of rabbi Mordecai Tendler.

From the new website Blaufacts.com (it is a professional and painstaking work, free of libel and amply documented):

Why does Yosef Blau degrade by including on his website past and present leaders of our generation, specifically Rabbi Moshe Feinstein zt"l, and Rabbi Chaim Pinchos Scheinberg shlita (a former relative of Yosef Blau)?

There's a veiled threat in this to rabbi Blau and some of the people he cares about most. Some background information.

Blaufacts.com reproduces this quote from Rabbi Yaakov Menken December 30, 2004 on the blog Cross-Currents.com:

Right now, there is a web site carrying extremely serious allegations about a member of our community, allegations which, if believed, would result in the immediate termination of that individual’s employment – or great damage to the company that employs him. The “evidence” against this person comes entirely from a blog (and another web page created by the blogger), which also contains a series of allegations against various rabbis and others who are “protecting” this individual. Anyone who knows any of these people knows that the allegations are ludicrous. If the allegations had a hint of truth to them, then (given their nature) the rabbis in question would be first to tell him he must leave his job. The allegations were discredited long ago – but certain people don’t care. They would rather besmirch the innocent based upon “testimony” which changes substantially each time the story is re-told.

Here's a little information on this tzaddik (truly righteous man) in our time, rabbi Yaakov Menken.

The person I feel most sorry for in this whole thing is Gary Rosenblatt. That this good man should have to be pictured next to me, oy ve! Rabbis Blau, Dratch and Bulka can take care of themselves but Gary is a gentle soul, a fragile flower. If he thought he was bothered by bloggers a few weeks ago...

Menahem writes on CampusJ:

Whoever posted this petty attack on Rabbi Blau has way too much time on his/her hands, no concept of what constitutes fact-checking and a generally delusional perspective.

Under a link called "Blau Facts," the site contains a disclaimer, " All information displayed on this site will be preceded by a link to the source of the information, so as not to allow any attempt to dispel these clear, undeniable facts." What clear, undeniable facts follow? Quotes from the media that in my mind point far more to Rabbi Blau's maturity and involvment with serious matters (that he must shoulder because no one else in the rabbinic community seems interested) than to refute him in any way.

I think it important for people to know that Jewish Whistleblower has changed its rules of posting, and now only accepts postings from "THE TEAM", assuring one sided discussion on blogs that begin with sensationalist accusations and then provide no means of retort...that certainly alters the site's credibility. Here is what I had attempted to post, as a simple observation of someone who regularly commutes from Tel Aviv to Istanbul. I know nothing about the Rabbi in question, or the case, but I know nonsense when I read it. I could not get it published on JWB in any manner. Very serious.

NOW WAIT A MINUTE! I know the Turkish kehilla very well, and visit it regularly. While we all pray for the remnants of the diaspora, there is simply nothing left there that could even be mistakenly confused for a Turkish Religious Authority. This is a bunch of New Yorkers living in a city of a million jews projecting their lives elsewhere. There is not a regular minyan anymore outside of Istanbul anymore, and only two in Istanbul every shabbat. Neither gets more than 10 men, tourists and Israelis included. There is no Chief Rabbinate left, nor any formal organization of any kind for the community left.

I have no idea who this Rabbi Worch is, nor the background of this case, but I know a false story when I read it. This story's basic representation is utter nonsense, and the fantasy of someone in Monsey or Brooklyn who has no concept of Jewish life in places like Turkey. I was not permitted to post this on the JWB site relating to Rabbi Worch and Turkey, and therefore posted it here. I ask, in all decency, that it be properly posted to correct the clear falsehood of the story that JWB is clearly censoring to insure it continues despite all proof of fabrication. Can I assume the other stories here are equally lacking in basic fact checking and accuracy?

Eight months ago, the Jewish Journal's singles columnist wrote a piece arguing against marriage. Seth Menachem ends today's column by proposing to his girlfriend, Carrie.

So what's changed? I no longer believe one has to be settled in one's career in order to "settle down." I'm an actor, so I need to accept that stability is pretty rare. And I have. After making a living as an actor for the past couple of years, this year has had me back to showing up at friends' houses just as they're eating dinner. Despite the free meals, I feel much better when I'm buying my own food. So I gave in to "the man" and took a side job to help me when I'm not making money as an actor...

I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with, and I think she feels the same way...I will work hard to make sure we have room for our kids. I will also make sure that I won't let a day go by where Carrie doesn't get kissed. If I can't do it, I'll find someone who can.

The column is a two-fer, since next week he can fill the space with her answer.

Jilda Beverly Hills

Jilda Trolio Shernoff is the creative visionary of Jilda Beverly Hills Cosmetics.

Jilda is a trendy yet classic jetsetter who currently resides in the posh hood of Beverly Hills, California.

A former fitness model turned personal image consultant, Jilda has had many photo opportunities to travel the world. While on her travels she began to develop a keen sense of what women of all ages and cultures need, want and will do to look and feel beautiful.

Jilda has a passion for contributing to the success of these women’s dreams and goals of self beauty.

Jilda has an ultra chic boutique in the heart of Beverly Hills. This location is the original launch pad for Jilda Beverly Hills Cosmetics.

With a celebrity clientele to die for, she also has an array of “makeover must haves” ranging from the exclusive airbrush tan to a make-up make over by a top Hollywood make up artist applying Jilda Beverly Hills’ cosmetics.

With Jilda Beverly Hills’ Beauty Boudoir of cosmetics and spa line I think you will not only look beautiful on the outside but you will also feel beautiful from within. See you there…..

A Current Affair

I am on A Current Affair today talking about snuff films, Taylor Summers aka Natel King. It airs at 11pm on Channel 11 in Los Angeles.

Chaim Amalek reports from New York: "LUKE! I just saw you on A Current Affair! You are on right now. Pretty good. Too bad about that Natel. Crummy tie, though. You are on at the very start of the segment, talking about snuff films. And are presented as a somber expert on the demimonde of ----. But that tie didn't work for you. And your suit seemed ill-fitting. You need to go shopping with some fags."

Tune in to Dennis Miller tonight (CNBC, not MSNBC) at 6 and 9. Lawrence O'Donnell lost it and screamed his head off at Cathy Seipp.

Vik Rubenfeld has much better pictures than I do.

Lawrence O'Donnell Panel Cathy Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Cathy, Lawrence Lawrence

Chaim writes: "Cathy really got smacked down there. I thought he was going to hit her. Typical for television. Nut jobs and crackheads get all the good jobs."

Emmanuelle Richard writes to Cathy's blog:

Hey Cathy, the red blouse is super sexy but I have to disagree on the Dennis Miller incident: O'Donnell starts praising his kid's teachers and you cut him off telling him that "he's delusional." He forgets to breathe deeply and goes on, saying how impressed he is with the teachers. Then you tell him that he's "out of his mind!" And he rightfully points out that... well, you don't know the teachers he's talking about. And he thinks they're great, which they may be. Because, of course, he probably lives in a posh area with good charter schools, attracting and retaining the best teachers and the most privileged students.

I have only attended a few classes at a public schools here, a special one for gay kids in L.A. The general level seemed awfully low to me, but the two teachers I observed and interviewed seemed strong, devoted and good. And as you mentioned in the show, they were working with kids who didn't always have the greatest abilities to learn or concentrate -- horrible family situations, psychological scars, etc.

If I had a kid, I would take any of these teachers against any "Troll Doll" psycho weirdo private school teacher that costs me a bundle. But again, red is your color!

Michelle writes:

Lawrence O'Donnell is a nut case. My fifteen year old daughter has attended enough classes in enough public schools for me to say that he is a nut case with confidence. I'd love to have a roster of these "great" teachers "all of them" that O'Donnell is so passionate about he's ready to pop a vein and spit saliva on strangers.

Mark writes:

I used to believe O'Donnell (based on his appearances on the McLaughlin Group) was an even-tempered, thoughtful liberal. But more recently, from his outburst towards O'Neill last year to his reaction in front of Cathy Seipp today, I now realize he's a real butthead, a variation of Nikki Finke, perhaps? Oh well, just more fuel to my observations over the past few years that people of the left aren't necessarily any kinder or nicer than a bunch of so-called rightwing rednecks----except the former tends to have even less or almost no common sense compared with the latter.

Texas Jew writes:

Let's see.. After protecting John Kerry last year from the terrible Swifties with psychotic defamatory rants against a successful tort attorney on national television, O'Donnell is now attacking small Jewish women while being dressed like the host of an Alabama outdoor show. And what was that bizarre fey patter with Dennis Miller at the beginning of the segment? O'Donnell's also responsible for that soft-focus sanctimonious stool sample of a TV show he produces. Quite a media legacy! I revise my gelding suggestion: Cathy, next time, just knee him in the huevos; he'll fold up like an accordian, just like all strutting loudmouth bullies.

Kate Coe writes:

I'll bet every public school teacher he's encountered has either (a) a spouse who's a writer or actor or (b) a script, just waiting to be read. He's used to people sucking up to him, and telling him what a genius he is. Cathy, as you can tell by her body language, wasn't very impressed with him, and he felt dissed. Cathy--a little more subservience, please. Don't you know who he is?

I Can't Stand It When Jews Talk In Movies

"God's chosen people" weren't selected based on their ability to follow plotlines. No wonder they wandered the desert for so many years—they can't even watch a Vin Diesel movie without getting lost.

It would help if management took stronger action against this total lack of regard. A sign saying, "Jews: Kindly refrain from talking during the film" couldn't hurt. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. That theater was as loud as an Elders of Zion meeting. Is it asking too much to expect a little courtesy from your fellow moviegoers? I guess some people just weren't raised gentile.

Look, I enjoy eating popcorn while taking in a flick, but at least I have the presence of mind to keep my munching to a conscientious level. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who wasn't raised in a barn where special precautions are taken to slaughter livestock in accordance with Jewish laws and traditions.

A Day In The Life Of Luke Ford

That's what I should write about, says Amalek. Hour by hour. "A Day in the Life of Luke Ford" - my next book, in which I describe what it is like for me to write my books.

Cathy Seipp Busts Nikki Finke For Lying

I've long thought that Cathy was too harsh on Nikki. I just couldn't account for my friend's venom and I chalked it up to meanspiritedness on Cathy's part.

The two disagreed so strongly about their past interactions it was clear that somebody was lying.

Cathy blogs:

I see Nikki Finke just said to PR Week in an interview that "I am every PR person's nightmare." No argument there. Many years ago, a publicist told me that Nikki (then a feature writer at the L.A. Times) called her the c-word over the phone for mistakenly sending a press release to other Times staff writers. I guess that was a violation of press release exclusivity rules known only to Nikki, but that's no reason to start screaming See You Next Tuesday at someone. Nikki's editor made her call the publicist back later and apologize.

Until it was spelled out in Cathy's blog, I never knew what the phrase "See You Next Tuesday" represented. C-U-N-T.

Nikki Finke responded (and Cathy has long contended that Nikki left anonymous posts on Cathy's blog) under her own name:

For the umpteenth time, Cathy, you have published something about me that is false. I never called a publicist the "c" word, nor did an editor ever make me apologize to a publicist for doing that. (How convenient that you don't even name the publicist.) You must have a rich fantasy life since you never seem to muster one correct fact when it comes to me. Let me see, the last time you printed something about me, you were raving on and on about how you thought I had left some evil comment about you under a pseudonym. As I emailed you at the time, when I have something to say to you, I identify myself. Like now. And then later you made a reference to a conversation with "one of Nikki's Wellesley classmates" -- again unidentified -- who supposedly told you something about my personal life. And when I emailed you to say it was untrue, you lost your cool. But never, never, do you ever correct your blog. What I can't figure out, Cathy, is why you seem so bizarrely obsessed with me. Either your world is that small, or you're very desperate for attention, or you don't mind looking pathetic.

Davidlo then wrote: "Ms. Finke just won by a knock-out."

Legal Eagle writes:

I see everything as a potential lawsuit because I am a lawyer. But Cathy's continuous comments about NF seem of a very personal and obsessive-like nature, which could spell trouble. Cathy, you should read this article from National Review Online.

Even though from 2002, it is very relevant. It quotes Sandra Baron, the executive director of the Libel Defense Resource Center in New York, and says bloggers are "unaware of the risks of libel and invasion of privacy, and don't realize that what they're saying on these websites could set themselves up for libel lawsuits from individuals and entities from around the world."

Cathy Seipp then notes that the IP address for Legal Eagle, Davidlo and Nikki Finke is identical: IP: 70.33.122.132. So while Nikki claimed she never commented anonymously, it is clear that she does. Cathy writes:

At first I thought "davidlo" meant Nikki won the bad PR contest by a knockout. Then I realized "he" was just Nikki again, suggesting that she won her fight with me by a knockout. If you say so, Nikki!

I didn't know you were a lawyer now, Nikki! Congratulations on passing the bar.

I have to believe Cathy now when she bets that some of the anonymous catty comments made about her looks on her blog were from Nikki.

In an exchange of emails, Cathy wrote me: "I don't know why it wasn't perfectly clear to everyone before that Nikki is an obvious liar. I mean, claiming that we'd never met -- when she's known me for years and once made me buy her an extra chicken salad (to go, for dinner later) at lunch? What was that all about? She didn't bother denying it after I reminded her, but admitted "How rude," and then added that really, I have to understand -- she once lived with a man for six months and didn't recognize him later. Which means she's either very forgetful, or a liar, or both -- not exactly reassuring qualities in a journalist. I don't trust her and never have."

Dr. David Myers Emails Dennis Prager

On Tuesday, Dennis said on his radio show that he won Monday's debate against Dr. Myers.

On Wednesday, Dennis read an email from Dr. Myers, which the professor said could be read on DP's radio show as long as he read it in full:

I tuned into your show this morning. Come on, man. You're continuing last night's delusion. You didn't win the debate or persuade a single mind. You simply played to an audience who could've predicted every word out of your mouth because they've heard the shtick before.

As for new ideas, you did give us one -- your barely concealed hatred for Muslims. Sure, there is "a beautiful Muslim here and there," but as a lot, they're rotten, right? After all, compare them to Christians. It's true we don't get much of that coarse prejudice in universities these days.

What you don't get is that hating Muslims, i.e., considering them of a lower moral order, is not good for Jews. Demonizing Palestinians doesn't help Israel either, nor does it make you more Jewish. What it does is allow you to pander to an audience that shares your disturbing prejudice. It also moves you halfway down the path to Meir Kahane, who you actually took on in an earlier and more more mora incarnation. If this kind of marketing and group hatred constitutes victory for you, God help us.

Dennis: "The superficiality and idiocy of this letter is only possible at the university. So I've invited the professor on so we can debate this. This is how the Left thinks. He is a perfect paragon of it. If you believe there is a moral difference between civilizations, you therefore hate all the members of that other civilization. This is how the Left engages in moral equivalence."

At 11:06am, Dr. Myers phoned in.

Dennis: "Dr. Myers, I consider it a foolish letter because you do not understand the difference between moral comparison and group hatred. But you have the floor."

Dr. Myers: "You engage in sweeping and dangerous group characterizations, which fail to distinguish between Islam, the great world religion, and Muslims as a whole, on the one hand, and those who interpret Islam in an errant and diabolical fashion.

"Jews throughout much of the medieval and early modern period faired considerably better under Islam than they did under Christianity. There was not a tradition of Crusades, of demonization of the Jews, of forced conversion.

"We cannot ascribe sweeping fixed categories to one group of people. That is what I found most disturbing about our debate and that is something we should discuss."

Dennis: "I don't know why you found it disturbing because I did not mention Islam once [in Monday's debate]. I had nothing to say about Islam, which is a great religion. I have something to say about Palestinian society vis-a-vis Israeli society. That there is no moral comparison between the two. That you think that they are morally equivalent is part of the reason I think that kids are getting moral nonsense taught to them at university."

Dr. Myers: "I don't think that they are morally equivalent."

Dennis: "So you believe Israel is a morally superior society to Palestinian society?"

Dr. Myers: "Suicide bombing is an abomination."

Dennis: "That is irrelevant to my point. Do you believe that they are morally equivalent societies?"

Dr. Myers: "I don't believe that they are morally equivalent societies because it is very difficult to measure the degree of morality of a society."

Dennis: "You are not prepared to say Israel is a morally better society than the Palestinians?"

Dr. Myers: "I am not prepared to say that the entirety of the population is morally superior..."

Dennis: "Oh, come on. That was demagoguery. Nobody said every Israeli or every Palestinian. I'm talking the sum total. Are gays treated better? Women treated better? Dissenters treated better in Israel?"

Dr. Myers: "We have different ideas of what constitutes morality."

Dennis: "I agree with you."

Dr. Myers: "I believe morality is individual and is measured by action."

Dennis: "Mine too."

Dr. Myers: "To inveigh against Palestinian society constantly... I would call your attention to, you as an advocate of situational ethics, should take stock of the fact that attitudes change. For example, you suggest that a majority of Palestinians support suicide bombing. I would suggest you take a look at the most recent survey (March 2005) by Shitaki..., the most important demographer in Palestinian society and will be teaching at Brandeis University next year, shows that Palestinian support for suicide bombing has plummeted to 29%. That is far too high."

Dennis: "Plummeted from what?"

Dr. Myers: "Seventy seven percent. When the window of opportunity for peace is open, there will be a significant shift in attitude, including in the support for suicide bombing."

Dennis: "When it was 77%, would you have been prepared to say that there was a moral gulf between Israel and the Palestinians?"

Dr. Myers: "I would've been prepared to say then that that was extremely disturbing."

Dennis: "I don't care whether it was disturbing. I'm not talking about emotions. I'm for negotiations and the withdrawal from Gaza."

Dr. Myers: "When there is a movement towards peace, there is a shift in attitudes."

Dennis: "That's not why. The shift in attitudes came because it [suicide bombing] was worthless and useless. It did nothing but make the Israelis weaker and make the Palestinians look like [evil]."

Dr. Myers: "When there are changes in historical conditions, there are also changes in moral attitudes."

Dennis: "You have been incapable throughout this dispute, when it was at 79% [support for suicide bombing], that there was a moral gulf between Israel and its enemies. That moral equivalence is what is typical of what is taught at the university. You are an example of it."

Dr. Myers: "I see the university as a place where diverse, important life-saving research takes place...

"I am very unsettled by something in your representation of the university. You inveigh against the university repeatedly. I don't know the way of radio, so you will have to instruct me. And yet you a pitchman, and a very effective one, for a college preparatory course. Is not the end result of a college preparatory course entry into a university?"

Dennis: "I'm asked that all the time. I have contempt for the liberal arts, not the natural sciences. The rejection of the ability to search for truth... When the president of Harvard says one possible reason for the lack of women in engineering and science is that male and female brains differ in those aptitudes and he is pillored as though he is a medieval inquisitor..."

Dr. Myers: "We are not to study language, history... These are liberal arts."

Dennis: "No. Are you available for more or do you have to go?"

Dr. Myers: "No. I have to go teach a class."

Dennis: "Do I have the time in your class that I gave you on my show?"

Dr. Myers, after a pause: "You have ten minutes in my class."

Dennis: "I would give you more on this..."

Fade to four minutes of advertising.

Dennis: "One can say, this is a safer neighborhood than the other neighborhood. Every major city has safer and less safe neighborhoods. Do you hate the people in the less safe neighborhood? It's a non-sequitar. One hates all members of a civilization that one thinks is on a morally-lower plane? Isn't a society that protects its women on a higher plane than a society that doesn't?"

A caller points out it was contradictory of Dr. Myers to argue that medieval Muslim society treated Jews better than medieval Christian society and then say you could not assess a society's morality.

Jerry, an acquaintance of mine and a student of Dr. Myers, phones in and says how wonderful his professor is.

Dennis: "There is nothing more frightening than a person living in a decent society who is unable to judge the difference between decent and indecent societies. [Dr. Myers] is a gentleman with scary ideas.

"We may agree on the roadmap to peace but he still scares the daylights out of me...because he can not say the United States is morally superior."

Dr. Jason Winfrey (jwinfree@umich.edu) calls in. He says he's a professor in sports management at the University of Michigan. He says he would rather not have that on the air.

Prager points out he is on the air.

Jason wants to speak out for his conservative values but he feared it would hurt him getting tenure.

Prager empathized and said it might make sense to keep quiet until he gets tenure.

DP: By calling what happened at Abu Ghraib torture, it cheapened the word 'torture.' The Left has cheapened the battle against rape, racism...and the suffering of real victims.

My Private Investigator

Celia writes:

My Private Investigator lowered the boom on my social life. I don't usually make a practice of running background checks on guys I'm dating, but I'm a single girl alone in the big city, I have to be careful. Ever since my worst date ever with a scary ex-con freaked me out, I've been very careful.

I met my PI at a party that my attorney's law firm threw in their luxurious and tastefully well-appointed Century City offices. My attorney's firm has a very busy entertainment-industry clientele and so does my PI. Ok, he's a bit of a starf---er. He can't (and doesn't) tell me who his famous clients are or what he does for them, and he doesn't tell me enough to sell to a tabloid. But he knows that I work in the industry and therefore understand discretion. I don't worry about what he says about me, because I'm more of a cautionary rather than a tittilating tale.

Meet The Machers Is Not Working

I like the idea of this program and I appreciate the noble intentions of the Jewish Journal and the Jewish Community Library of Los Angeles in hosting this three-part series but it's not firing on all cylinders.

And the painful reason is that Amy Klein, the Journal's managing editor, hates public speaking and is not skilled at leading discussions.

Because Amy's not comfortable at leading out, the panelists are uncomfortable and the audience is uncomfortable.

It must take great courage for a shy person like Amy to put herself out there. She's always prepared and courteous and asks the obvious questions but that's a part of the problem. She asks such questions as, well, let's go to the program email:

What do the writers of "24" "Malcolm in the Middle" and "3rd Rock From the Sun" have in common? Find out when we talk to Michael Glouberman, Howard Gordon and David Sacks as The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles and the Jewish Community Library of Los Angeles invite young professionals (age 21-39) to Part II of the Jewish Screenwriter Speaker Series: Meet the Machers!

Her constant theme is what is it like to be Jewish in Hollywood. That is not a question that is going to get interesting answers when it is asked head-on. It's like asking three black men what it is like to be black in Compton. Yawn.

Amy's moderating technique leaves much to be desired. She'll ask her question, then repeat it with a minor twist, then ask it again and again until one of the panelists feels so uncomfortable that he will speak up and say something, anything, to avoid hearing the question for the fifth time.

Jewish Journal editor Rob Eshman takes a sly glee in asking provocative questions. Amy, by contrast, bends over backwards to not be confrontational. She's so careful to not give offense to her guests that these Meet the Machers (Yiddish for big shots) programs are boring.

Watching Amy moderate a discussion is like watching retarded kids play in a band (that scene in American Pie 2, not the one with the boy-in-the-apple-pie scene) -- you admire their spirit and feel obliged to applaud, but after a few minutes you begin to feel retarded yourself and then you start hating yourself for what you're feeling, and you say to yourself that you shouldn't feel uncomfortable, how wonderful it is that the specially abled have this opportunity to shine, and then your mind wanders to how good some warm apple pie would feel right now...and then you imagine your parents walking in on you...and then you feel like Stifler did when he realized the woman he was just with (American Wedding) was the 80-year old grandmother...

Amy did slip once Tuesday night (the panel discussion lasted 50-minutes and started as scheduled at 8:30pm, major props to the organizers for that) and asked a nasty question (which she quickly rephrased to be inoffensive) -- "Do you get any pleasure out of portraying Arabs badly?"

Amy asked the panelists if they had any favorite scenes from their shows based on their personal experience. It was another obvious question that went down like a lead balloon. These types of questions are so dull that the panelists can only hmm and haw.

David Sacks admits he serves as the Jewish cop on his every show.

He gave this example:

A character is asked if her boyfriend is Jewish. She replies, "Does it matter?"

Intermarriage matters a great deal to an Orthodox Jew such as Sacks.

A secular Jewish producer, worth about a billion dollars, had added the last question to avoid a nervous breakdown brought on by sounding parochial.

David was relieved when the question, "Does it matter?" failed to elicit laughs with a studio audience and was cut.

Michael (father of fourand YULA/UCLA graduate) and David (father of two-plus?) gave their well-worn stories about observing the Sabbath in Hollywood.

Gordie fears that his tombstone will read: "He had a way with words but no point of view."

Most of the audience seems to be aspiring TV writers.

I like the technique of having people write down their questions and then letting the moderator choose the best ones. It beats letting people stand up and drone on.

David Poland would be an excellent moderator for this type of series. He enjoys leading discussions and he knows his topic. I've read Amy's writing on entertainment and she rarely has anything to say beyond that Jews and Arabs should lie down together like lambs.

Moderating a good panel discussion is a rare gift. Most are herky-jerky affairs like Tuesday night's. It makes me more grateful for the superb panel of TV writers Cathy Seipp led six weeks ago (scroll past the stuff on race).

Dennis Prager: 'I Won The Debate'

On his radio show, Dennis said: "I won the debate. Not because I am a better debater but because I had better arguments. Our universities don't hear or read what you hear and read every day. The ideas I brought to these students were so novel, so utterly new..."

Chaim Amalek: 'You Are In A Deadly Rut'

Chaim Amalek: You are in a deadly rut.
Chaim Amalek: One day, you will be an old man, cursing yourself for not having taken advantage of your gifts and opportunities.
Chaim Amalek: For even now, you have possibilities that you squander.
Chaim Amalek: Only I, invisible man of unknown origin on the internet, a man only you have met, am in a position to tell you these truths.
Luke: what should I do?
Chaim Amalek: STEP ONE: You NEED to get back into UCLA to finish your degree.
Chaim Amalek: That alone will open up new possibilities for you.
Chaim Amalek: And you have not a damn thing to lose by trying this.
Chaim Amalek: You were born to do economics and journalism.
Chaim Amalek: Or at least make the attempt.
Chaim Amalek: Give me two good reasons for not even trying. And lack of money isn't one of them - even I can figure out how you, a California resident, might pay for this.
Chaim Amalek: Women who are worth marrying hate men who don't even try.
Chaim Amalek: And you don't try. You know that saying, "winners never quit and quitters never win?" Well, even that presupposes you make the effort.
Chaim Amalek: You won't even do that much.
Luke: Would you give this same advice to Bill Gates? He too dropped out of uni.
Chaim Amalek: Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard in his last year in response to specific opportunities that he knew were his at that moment and that would not come his way again. He was very quickly proven right.
Chaim Amalek: YOU, on the other hand, dropped out of school for medical reasons, not to pursue any golden opportunity that would not come your way again.
Chaim Amalek: Besides, there is nothing that you are doing in life now that cannot be tackled in paralled with a normal course load at UCLA.
Chaim Amalek: You left UCLA a long, long time ago, and have nothing to show for that.
Chaim Amalek: You attempt to use humor to deflect the painful truths.
Chaim Amalek: Your closest friends are those who pity you your life. But, as your wise governor has said, everyone pities the weak; envy, you have to earn.
Chaim Amalek: If you have any balls, you will post all of this and forward it to your so-called "friends" for further discussion. And yes, you should send it to your family too.
Chaim Amalek: Tell them your conscience has been writing to you, and that while you might not know exactly who this Chaim Amalek is, you fear that he may be speaking words of truth.
Chaim Amalek: Prove to the world that Luke Ford can have a second act.

JMT writes: "If you're thinking that it's still relatively inexpensive for Californians to attend the state universities that their taxes support, you're wrong. Luke could forgo lithium, Powerbars, and van repairs, and it wouldn't even amount to a drop in the bucket for what going back to college would cost him. Signing up for student loans that will take 20 years to pay off, and which can't be discharged in bankruptcty, doesn't make much sense for a middle-aged man with iffy earning prospects and, I'm guessing, no 401K. I don't think that Larry Flynt has set up any kind of scholarship program to assist incompletely-educated... gossip bloggers. Unless Luke is losing actual work due to not having a degree, I don't think going back to school is going to do him much good."

Debate draws cheers from supporters on both sides

Here's the bloodless UCLA Daily Bruin article, which fails to mention the crowd cheered one person (Prager) far more than the other.

UCLA history Professor David Myers called for support of a two-state system for Israelis and Palestinians in the debate with radio host Dennis Prager, who emphasized what he believes is the moral gulf between Israelis and Palestinians and the idealistic view of the world held by university communities.

Myers and Prager both expressed support for peace negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians in the debate which focused largely on Myers and Prager's different views of Palestinians.

During the debate, Myers argued for a two-state solution which he claimed is "not only ideal, but necessary for peace."

Myers said economic support for a viable Palestinian state is needed to encourage peace between Israelis and Palestinians. "Support for Israel is not exclusive of support for Palestine," Myers said.

Myers also advocated for the withdrawal of the Israel-occupied Gaza strip and the West Bank. "The economic, political and moral cost of occupation is too high," Myers said.

Prager, on the other hand, claimed that the majority of Palestinians will not accept peace with a Jewish state and that Palestinian culture tolerates and honors terrorists. In his rebuttal, Myers warned against a demonized view of Palestinians, saying it is "dangerous and should be avoided."

UCLA alumna Jeannine Frank said she believed Myers was at a disadvantage because he was more serious. Frank called Prager's statements regarding Palestinians "inciteful."

"I believe that the Islam faith does not support suicide bombings. For him to state that this is a part of their culture just can't further peace. It's unsettling to hear someone with such charisma and with a national platform to make statements that are so provocative," Frank said.

Dennis Prager Vs. Dr. David Myers

Judging by the audience applause, Prager crushed his opponent.

I arrived on campus at 4pm with an hour to kill before the debate. I sought directions to Moore Hall from the Asians because I assumed they would be more polite than any other group. They were. One guy even turned off his Walkman, and walked me over to the front of Moore. Another guy, as I was wandering the hallway, asked me if I needed help. Asians rock!

Beautiful young women rock also. As I walked around campus (I invested my dreams here from 1986-89, only to have them destroyed by CFS), I thanked God that I have such a strong and firm moral compass always pointing due north (otherwise I'd waste my valuable talents chasing women instead of blogging).

As I walk by Bunche Hall (the home of the Economics department, where I planned to do such great things), my former boss at the URL (University Research Library) periodicals desk Mollie biked past. I didn't realize who she was until she was too far gone.

4:40pm. I see Dr. Myers and graduate student and blogger Shawn Landres (both dressed in tweedy jackets and slacks) chatting by the stairs leading away from Royce Hall and the quad.

A few feet away from me is a stone bench where I made-out for the first time with the woman I last loved. It was January 29, 2003. (On January 30, Cathy Seipp took me to lunch for the first time -- Orso in Beverly Hills.)

My idea of a romantic second date (first date was January 27, meeting for coffee which turned into lunch and then a drive up to Malibu in my van and a walk hand-in-hand on the beach, topped off by a few brief kisses on the rocks) was to walk around UCLA and Westwood for four hours prior to catching the Rabbi David Wolpe - Stephen Fried dialogue at Temple Sinai.

A few feet further is the grassy hill where in 1989 I used to lie on a towel and listen to pop music and think about my first girlfriend (in the ultimate sense) back in the dorms in bed (where she belonged).

I look past Dr. Myers to the track stadiem. It was the first place I explored at UCLA one morning in early August 1988 after driving all night from above Sacramento. I was looking for a bathroom.

For the next month, before the dorms opened, I slept in the bushes beside the girls softball field and Bellagio Drive. One Sunday night in August, I tuned my radio to 790 AM KABC where I heard Dennis Prager for the first time and my life forever changed, culminating in my conversion to Judaism and my strict abstinence from all behavior prohibited by the Israelite religion.

That was 17-years ago. I was 21. I had $25,000 in the bank (and never used financial aid). I was a virgin. I was an atheistic communist (or at least that was the line I used to try to get girls into bed). I planned to get my Ph.D. in Economics.

I was also weak and scared from seven months of CFS.

Now I gaze out at the campus I had planned to conquer and wondered if the day would ever come when I could make some mark on this hallowed (with my hopes and tears) turf. I know intellectually that the university is a den of moral confusion, but my dad got two PhDs and I grew up on college campus and I emotionally revere learning and professors. I wanted to be a professor and now I'm just a blogger.

I turn back to Moore Hall. Every step I take resonates with failure and regret. For my first 30-minutes on campus, my mind and body were keen and alert. Now I'm tiring and another headaches beginning.

I sit on top of Bruin Walk and look down past the activists handing out brochures, past Pauley Pavillion (I watched on TV my first NCAA final in 1980, UCLA lost) and the student gym (which I was never been strong enough to use even though I was once a marathoner), past the track, up the hill I (where once staggered on crutches after severely spraining my ankle before school started) used to rush with my tiny girl 17-years ago, eager to get into bed with her, past the students (they look the same as 17-years, typically dressing in jeans and sweats, listening to Walkmans, only I have aged) walking to and from campus, and then I can see no further, and my recollections and dreams smash into concrete.

I sat here 16-years ago. It was June 1989. I was heading home too sick to continue with my education. My friends thought I was a flake because there was nothing visibly wrong with me. Yet I could only handle one class a quarter.

Sixteen years ago I swore that I would return one day to UCLA and take up my life anew. And that when I did, I would live it passionately and Jewishly. I would amp up the intensity until I hit static. I would pray to God, kiss girls, and write my heart out.

I pick up my Seraphic Press tote bag and walk into Moore Hall. Sitting down, I wait for the appearance for the man I admire more than any other -- Dennis Prager. It wasn't just his theology that won me but his kindness (letters, phone call, encouragement) to me during years that were darker than any I've known.

He walks in at 4:58pm, after a long plane flight from Denver following his 9am-12pm radio show. A jolly giant, he turns heads.

Dennis walks up to Dr. Myers (tall, bespectacled and slender), shakes hands, and banters. I spot his blonde Persian intern and his beautiful blonde wife Fran. I don't see his son David, a UCLA-student.

The tall old black moderator sits in the center of the stage -- Dr. Berky Nelson.

The event was advertised as starting at 5pm prompt. It doesn't start until 5:20 and then there are 10-minutes of useless introductory speeches. With at least 200 people in the audience, I'd place a monetary value on the stolen time at least $1,000. Thanks organizers.

The event is jointly sponsored by the Progressive Jewish Students Alliance and UCLA Events.

Barry (?) from PJSA gives a meandering incoherent introduction and says: "...[E]vents that take place here in Israel."

Prager opens the debate with a six-minutes salvo. He says he's often argued liberally for peace in the Middle East. He's often said (up to 2001) that he can't stand the Israeli Right. Prager supported the Oslo Accords (but since 2001 he's said that was a mistake). "For real peace, I'd be willing to compromise on anything.

"I spoke at Stanford two years ago. I was there for a week giving lectures. It coincided with Israel's Independance Day. I spoke briefly at the celebratory rally for Israel. I said it is sad that we have an imbalance -- most Israelis crave peace and most Palestinians crave Israel's destruction. Every poll we have acknowledges that.

"A woman came over afterwards. She said, 'I'm a peace activist and I don't agree with what you said. The Palestinians absolutely want peace with Israel.'

"I said, 'I'll make you a $5 bet.' There were Palestinians demonstrating 50-feet away from us. 'Go to every one of them...and ask them: 'Are you prepared to make peace with the Jewish state of Israel?'

"She comes back ten minutes later. She says she's not sure. 'Everyone I asked if they would make peace with the Jewish state of Israel said, 'What do you mean?'' I said, 'Well, you owe me $5 but I won't collect.'

"That's the whole point. It's one of the incredible events of my lifetime that the obvious is denied. The vast majority of Palestinians do not want the Jewish state of Israel to exist. They think it is wrong. That it is a tragedy, a disaster from 1948 on. It is on their soil and it has no place. The vast majority of Israelis think the Palestinians do have a right to a Palestinian state.

"Everything else...is commentary. One side wants the other obliterated. I say this as someone...who cried when Rabin and Arafat shook hands because I am a naive peace-loving Jew. Jews generally ache for peace because we do not have the power not to have peace and because our tradition calls for it. There are few Jews who want to keep making war. But there is a deep belief on the other side that with enough time, they win. If enough Israelis are slaughtered in cafes and on buses...they will go away.

"That Jewish peace activist in Stanford was surprised to find not one Arab Palestinian leftist activist was willing to say, yes, we want peace with the Jewish state of Israel. Peace with Israel not a Jewish state is ethnic cleansing and Jews have had enough of that in the 20th Century."

Most of the crowd applauds.

Dr. Myers speaks for six minutes. He says Israel can no longer hold on to the occupied territories. He agrees with Ariel Sharon on a lot of things.

I remember discussing these things with Dr. Myers at temple in the summer of 2001. He wanted to write a book on why he no longer supported a Jewish state in the present state of Israel. When I mentioned that Beth Jacob Orthodox rabbi Steven Weil had articles supporting Sharon on his office, Dr. Myers was shocked. "I heard [Rabbi Weil] was a nice man," he said. "You can't be a nice man and support Sharon?" I asked. Dr. Myers said no.

Dr. Myers can sound moderate when he wants to but make no mistake -- he's Left. About 40% of the audience applauds.

Dennis: "Israel already offered all of this at Camp David in the last months of the Clinton administration. President Clinton, who was facile with words, said it was Arafat's fault that it broke down. Dennis Ross said [the same thing]. A contiguous state was already offered. Palestinians responded to a breathtaking offer by murdering a record number of Israeli children... That's what Israel has gotten every time it made overtures for peace.

"I support overtures for peace and I support the pull-out from Gaza. But I live in reality. I don't live at UCLA."

There's widespread laughter and applause. The crowd is 75% students.

"The Palestinians have greeted every Israeli overture for peace by blowing up as many [innocent] Israelis as possible and inventing new forms of torture such as putting rat poison on nails... The great majority of Palestinians support terror against Israel. These [suicide bombers] are the martyrs of the Palestinians. These are the heroes. Their posters are all over declaring how great they are. The more Israelis you kill, the more suffering you inflict on innocent Jews, the better a human being you are the and the more virgins you get in Heaven. That is the civilization Israel is fighting.

"Though that is true, I am willing to take the risks...

"My greatest hesitation in coming here was not that I shun debate. I debate for a living. My hesitation is the chutzpah involved in anybody from America telling Israel what to do for peace. I am blown away by the notion that we who sit in such comfort and security have the audacity to tell Israelis how to risk their lives. I direct that particularly at the American Jewish community."

Applause.

"I always contend that because my children are American and growing up in America, who the hell am I to tell Israelis what risks to take. I say this to the right-wing as much as to the left. When right-wing American Jews attack left-wing Israeli prime ministers and when left-wing American Jews attack right-wing Israeli prime ministers I am annoyed.

"Israel is a perfectly functioning democracy. If you don't like who they choose, and you are a Jew, move there and talk any way you want."

Dr. Myers: "As members of the Jewish nation, we have an obligation to express our concern when Israeli policy affects Jews around the world."

Dr. Myers keeps referring to the new leadership of the Palestinian Authority.

Dennis: "I'd like to ask Dr. Myers a question he can answer on his next turn. He keeps saying Yassir Arafat is dead. I wrote a column entitled, 'Is it OK to hope anyone in Hell?'

"Did Dr. Myers speak differently when Arafat was living? Was he then as harsh on Arafat and the Palestinians as they deserved to be in that bygone era?"

Dr. Myers didn't answer the question, even though Prager repeated it, so let me answer it for Dr. Myers: The good professor had a similar approach to the Palestinians and their leadership under Arafat as he does today.

Dennis: "From the little I did read on the internet, he was just as anti the description of Arafat and the Palestinians as terrorists when [Arafat] was living and blowing up Israeli children as now that he is dead.

"I'd like to note that Dr. Myers says there are winds of change of democracy in the Arab world, something I celebrate. Whatever winds of change are there are thanks to someone I know Dr. Myers did not support -- George W. Bush.

"To have so opposed this man who made democracy possible and then to celebrate the winds of change..."

About the settlements: "I don't have any great joy in having Israeli settle among people who hate their guts. But I don't know why it is ok for a quarter of Israel to be Arab but it is not ok for any percentage of the Palestinian Authority to be Jewish? The notion of the West Bank being Judenrein when the attachment of the Jewish people [for 3,200 years] to that area [is deep]... Palestinians are a new [about 100-years old] national entity.

"If the Palestinian position is that this state must not have Jews in it, and I don't know if this has changed since Arafat died, that Jews have no historical rights or basis there... Arafat said Jesus was a Palestinian, and I don't know any Palestinian who contradicted him, echoed what the Nazis said -- that Jesus was an Aryan. The attempt to deny anything Jewish to the Jews in the most Jewish place in the world, a place saturated with Jewish bones and Jewish history, is not healthy. Opposition to settlements is a figleaf for a denial of reality of Jewish existence in that area. And you can't have peace if one side denies the other's historical bonds to the place."

Applause.

Dr. Myers: "So how should we resolve those competing historical claims? Should we just fight it out to the last survivor? That makes no sense. Settlements are antithetical to peace. Settlements, according to most legal observers, are in contravention of international law (Fourth Geneva Convention, UN Resolution 242)..."

Dr. Myers does much of his speaking directly to Dennis across the stage. Dennis sits and looks either straight ahead or down. Dennis rarely if ever looks over at Dr. Myers while the professor speaks. When Dennis speaks, he addresses the audience. That makes sense. It's not like David or Dennis are going to change the other's mind.

Dennis: "I will leave it to Dr. Myers' students to ask him in class if, when Arafat was Prime Minister, or dictator, whatever title, whether Dr. Myers was characterizing Arafat and the Palestinians in the way they deserved to be characterized. Since he keeps making the differentiation that [Arafat's] dead and we have a new world among the Palestinians. Again, I pose that question. Perhaps you'd rather speak about it to your students and not to us.

"About international law -- there are major jurists who have different takes on the settlements given that Israel's war was entirely defensive [in 1967]... Jordan lost the West Bank because they went into a war of genocide to destroy Israel. They declared their intentions genocidal and Israel survived it. Then Israel's supposed to go back, as if this is all a game of cards. Ok, next gin rummy game.

"Second, morality and law are not the same. The international community, academia and media utterly condemned Israel's [1981] bombing of [Iraq's nuclear reactor]. I'm sure there wasn't one UCLA professor who defended Israel's attacking of Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program. It was condemned by every major newspaper in this country except for the Wall Street Journal. When Sudan is made the head of the Human Rights commission at the UN, I know to take it [international opinion] with a grain of salt."

Dr. Myers: "Thirty years later, the settlements are still there and you're stuck with the same old rhetoric. Living in your world of Olympian moral heights, a world of absolute moral virtue, a world in which the Jew is incapable of an act on injustice...that seems to me moral relativism."

He says that Israelis and Palestinians supported peace negotiations in equal numbers. That Americans and Israelis should economically invest in the Palestinian state, fix their sewage and give them a light-rail system, and that would morally elevate Palestinian political culture and make them see homicide bombing is a moral abomination.

Dennis: "I would love to see Americans and Israelis help Palestinians see terrorists as moral abominations.

"I feel that when I come to universities that I have entered a different sort of world, where people believe that Americans and Israelis can teach Palestinians basic morality, that blowing up innocent people is a moral abomination. It's bizarre to me. Either your culture teaches you that or it doesn't. That Americans would teach Palestinians that rat-poisoned bombs are bad, I feel like I'm entering The Twilight Zone.

"I have more respect for Palestinians, perhaps, than Professor Myers. Either they will teach themselves what basic morality entails or they will not learn it. Americans and Israelis are the last people in the world to shape the moral vision of Palestinians.

"I heard from Dr. Myers that the yearning for peace was the same among Israelis as among Palestinians. Can anybody sing me any of the Israeli peace songs so popular among Israelis? Of course. Anyone who knows Israel can sing any peace song. Israelis go nuts for peace. They OD on yearnings for peace. How many peace songs were played on Palestinian radio? Maybe it was a Palestinian yearning for peace without the little caveat of the Jewish state of Israel like Germans yearned for peace with Poland [before WWII]."

Dr. Myers: "Adolf Hitler is dead, sir."

A quarter of the audience applauds.

Dr. Myers: "From your Olympian moral heights, I'm astonished at your demonized vision of the Palestinians."

Same applause.

Dr. Myers: "This kind of demonization, sir, is dangerous and should be avoided.

"What I had in mind was not sending our best representative of virtue over to the Palestinian territories, Dennis Prager... What I had in mind was economic investment so that sewage does not flow through the streets of refugee camps and parents can put food on the table for their children. So parents can provide an education for their children. This will require a monumental investment by the rest of the world and Israelis...and [move along] an important path towards the maturation of Palestinian culture."

Moderator for Prager: What role can we hope for Israel to play in the Arab world?

Dennis: "That it is not sending moral Olympians like me but economic development of Palestine that will that will stop the celebration of people who blow up children... Marx lives. The notion that economics determines morality. One has to visit the temple of the Left to believe such nonsense.

"We were attacked by wealthy Arabs on 9/11. The leader terrorist of the world [Osama Bin Laden] is a billionaire. He makes more than any university professor.

"This notion that if we only give them lightrail and clean up the sewage in the refuge camps they will stop celebrate death. It is painful to hear it is so wrong. Why the hell are there refugee camps? Has there ever been a more disgusting treatment of one's fellow ethnics than Arabs of Palestinians?"

Majority applaud.

"I have never argued that Israel has never committed any immoralities. I'm sure that Israelis engage in immorality as much as any other group on earth. I am sure they could treat Palestinians with much greater respect at checkpoints, for example. But the comparison between the cultures is not comparable. One is death-oriented and one is life-oriented. This is not demonizing. They are self-demonizing.

"What role? With peace, it will be perfectly understandable. Palestinians will meet Israelis. Israelis will meet Palestinians. With the low level of Jewish identity among many secular Israelis, there will be a vast amount of intermarriage. If the Arabs had been smart in 1948, they would've accepted the small state of Israel and it would've assimilated except for some ultra-Orthodox Jews.

"But it is moral sewage cleanup, not physical sewage cleanup that is necessary in that part of the world.

"I know Hitler and Arafat are dead. I feel like obituaries are being read to me. It's really helpful for the discussion. Arafat is dead. Palestinians now believe in life. I'm happy I came to UCLA."

Widespread laughter and applause.

Dr. Myers: "You're saying don't get up [and let Palestinians suffer]. It is not our responsibility and it is not in our interest. No."

Dennis: "I, who don't want to lecture Middle Easteners what to do, can hardly be accused of lecturing from Olympian heights. I object to this whole thing of people sitting in LA telling Israelis and Palestinians what to do. And I'm being chided for speaking from Olympian heights?

"I don't think we have anything to say to these people. It is not our business. We have meddled all the time to bail them out from dealing with one another. The West has given the Palestinians billions of dollars, which we don't know where they are because Arafat hid them in Swiss banks. But this doesn't matter in Palestinian culture. The West is responsible. Not the Saudis with their gourging oil prices...

.........

"Abbas is the duly elected president of the Palestinians and Israel has to talk to him [no matter what Abbas has said or done].

"I live with reality, but I don't fool myself about the moral stature of those I have to deal with. The Palestinians have given evil a new name.

"I believe Abbas is better than Arafat.

"Dr. Myers quoted Abbas in Haaretz [saying the Holocaust was a tragedy]... I'd be interested if that was broadcast in any Palestinian medium in Arabic. What Palestinians say to gullible Israelis, gullible Jews in universities, and elsewhere, and what they say in Arabic to their own people have never had any similarity.

"I'd love to hear him say that six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust and nothing comparable has taken place with Arabs. It is inconceivable that that would be said."

The crowd is overwhelmingly well-behaved for such an emotional topic.

Each man gets a five-minute closing statement.

Dennis: "Christian Palestinians are as nationalistic as Muslim Palestinians, but there is a moral gulf between the average Christian Palestinian and the average Muslim Palestinian. No Christian Palestinian believe that they go to Heaven and Jesus blesses them if they blow up Jewish children. If you can not see this moral gulf, you are willfully blind.

"Thanks for having me."

Huge applause.

6:40pm. I walk past Prager. He's walking to his car with his wife. He's surrounded by a dozen students. I overhear him tell one young woman, "There's a lot of suffering in the world... We can't..."

I'm out of earshot.